ATS Goes Boldly (and illegally) Where Redflex Won’t

American Traffic Solutions or Above The Statutes, Inc?

American Traffic Solutions or Above The Statutes, Inc?

Last week, we reported about American Traffic Solutions’ new legal nightmare in Florida in an article titled “RED LIGHT: ATS Future Uncertain in Florida:”

The headlines say it all. Miami Herald: “Legal challenges mount for Florida’s red-light cameras.” Daytona Beach News-Journal: “Red-light camera lawsuit looms.” Naples News: “[Suit claims] red-light cameras are unconstitutional.”

What’s most interesting is how American Traffic Solutions is risking so much in Florida. Their arch-rival, Redflex, never known for shying away from legally-questionable but potentially lucrative contracts, has avoided Florida like the plague:

“Legal opinions indicate that automated enforcement in the state of Florida remains illegal,”

That’s according to Redflex’s filing with the Australian Securities Exchange.

While there may not be honor among thieves, even a dumb crook knows when to mitigate risk.

ATS, clearly, does not.


60 Responses to ATS Goes Boldly (and illegally) Where Redflex Won’t

  1. Frankie says:

    Maybe the greed of these two companies will cause them to destroy each other.

  2. photoradarscam says:

    ATS must be pretty hard up…

  3. Raymond says:

    Yea, they’re hard-up. The cities contacted them, the cities voted on the installation of the cameras and then voted on their installation. ATS provides a service. They don’t put a gun to any of these cities heads to vote for installing the cameras nor do they go out and just install cameras wherever they want… they are contracted by the governments. You know, if everyone slowed down and stayed with the speed limits (or, at least, 10 mph over the posted limit)the cities and companies wouldn’t make any money and they would go away.

    I got a photo radar ticket recently in Scottsdale…I got mad and then I accpted responsibility for the fact that I made a mistake and was speeding. I paid the ticket. I was wrong. I raised my kids to be obey and respect the law and if they make a mistake, to step up and accept responsibility and move on. Of all of the many issues that threaten our way of life and our Constitution, this is low on my list. I can make this a non-issue by slowing down and obeying the posted law.

    • photoradarscam says:

      It doesn’t matter if the cameras were voted in or not. If state law doesn’t allow them, they are illegal and ATS is breaking the law. Funny how you are upset about someone going 1mph too fast, but it’s OK to break Forida state law and install unapproved cameras. Hypocrit much?

      You know, if they properly engineered the roads and intersections, cities and companies wouldn’t make any money either and the raods would be naturally safer and they’d never even need to think about extra enforcement. You set the yellow too short and then wonder why people run the light, well gee, I wonder what the correct solution is.

      So how do you know you were speeding? Did you know at the time you were doing it, or not until the ticket showed up in the mail? If you knew it at the time, if you really wanted to teach your kids a lesson, you would have driven down the police dept before you got the ticket and wrote a check. Of course, you waited until the ticket came instead of turning yourself in. You’re not exactly a role model.

      What if you never got the ticket in the mail and 8 years later your license gets suspended like this guy?

      And driving below the limit will still not protect you against camera malfunctions and erroneous tickets.

      • Ernest T. Bass says:

        PRscam… driving AT the limit has done well for me…. i bought a car last august… i am the only one who drives it…. i just passed 20,000 miles in the last year…. AND GUESS WHAT CLOWN ? I have received NO….ZERO…. NOTTA ticket in the mail…. and i pass the cameras ALL DAY LONG !!! so please stop with the malfunctions claim…. if they really malfunctiond you would see thousands upon thousands of tickets issued by the same camera… and since it is widepread as you want to would be happening all the time ( as you claim) and that is simply just not the case…. are you saying they only malfunction every once in ahwile? you really have no idea what you are talking about !!!

        • LoneWolf says:

          Do you honestly believe that the scamera companies and the DPS are going to publish every malfunction the scameras ever had? That would spell bad publicity for them. Machines malfunction… period. Your car malfunctions. Your computer malfunctions. Every electronic that has moving parts in it malfunctions at one time or another. If you think you’re living in a world with perfect problem-free technology, you’re obviously in the wrong world because that isn’t this one. The problem with scameras is that when they do malfunction, it’s hard to dispute the ticket because there are some judges’ out there who believe that the info generated by the scameras is as good as gold. I know because my brother had one of those judges. Sure, the scamera companies can catch multiple tickets generated by a malfuntioning scamera but there may be several instances where something went wrong with the scamera and they didn’t catch the mistake. Heat affects electronics. Imagine how hot a camera sitting inside of a sealed tin box gets in the deserts. The mirror inside the camera itself can warp from the heat. The shutter can stick. The flash sync mechanisim could react to the heat and as a result, it could fire off several unwarranted flashes. But there are many other possiblities. It may not happen quite that often, but your attitude is to take the innocent and toss them in with the guilty anyway. Just because it hasn’t happened to you yet doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened to others.

          • Bill W. says:

            Electronics with moving parts??? I hope you don’t have an electrical enginnering degree.

            • photoradarscam says:

              Is that all you’ve got?

              I’m no camera expert, but… The shutters don’t move? The focus is fixed?

            • LoneWolf says:

              No Bill. The coconuts on your deserted island are neither electronic nor do they have moving parts in them. It doesn’t take a degree in electrical “engineering” to figure that out. However, the technicians over at Fry’s Electronics would be more than happy to enlighten you a bit on this subject should you be overwhelmingly compelled to disagree with me.

            • who says:

              I’m sorry but in electronic shutters, electrons are moving.
              PRS learned that today at fry’s.

              • LoneWolf says:

                A digital SLR lens may contain its own motor (moving part)which drives the aperture (several moving parts), auto focus (moving part), and shutter (moving part). The lens is powered by an elecronic device which is the camera. Every button on the camera is also a moving part. Other electronics containing moving parts are HDD’s, CD/DVD players, Printers, Scanners, Fax Machines, Fans, and the list goes on. I must apologize if I’m insulting your intelligence. I keep forgetting that trolls hate responses that actually make sense.

    • Camera Hater says:

      And what happens, Raymond, when the non-accountable “road stafey industry” lowers the limit to 20 mph on suburban roads and 30 mph on freeways???? You think I am joking. THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IS BEING PROPOSED! Will you be as docile and compliant when your commute is two and a half hours each way? Limits are deliberately set low to make money. When they stop making money, the limit comes down until the cash flows again. Oh and “Earth to Ernest” – THEY DO MALFUNCTION! Where I live, there is a camera that DOES, and I have personally seen it snapping people who are in the intersection when amber turs to red. The Police ignore evidence fron hundreds of unjustly fined people.

      The “don’t break the law and you have nothing to worry about” people are morons who ignore what’s really happening here. You’re like Germans who didn’t care about the Nazis because the Gestapo weren’t coming for them. Know what? They eventually DID!!!

    • stupidamerkin says:

      If everyone woke up to the real truth about rights and freedom of travel, the changes would be astounding. This issue would not even exist.

      “A nation of well educated men who have been taught to understand and cherish their God given rights cannot be enslaved. It is through the regions of ignorance and apathy that tyranny prevails.

      • Ernest T.Bass says:

        freedom of travel you have clown…. freedom to break laws that when you want you do not have that right!!! well you do have that option… but knowing that you may have to suffer the consequences !!

        • photoradarscam says:

          Yes Jay, we all know that if a cop catches us, we have to suffer the consequences.

        • stupidamerkin says:

          Are u talkin man’s law or God’s law?
          How do you equate freedom with having to get permission and pay into a fraudulent system. Privileges are for slaves. Rights are for a free people. You must be a slave from your mind set which is your choice. You are free to think this way, so go for it and have a great life.

    • Camera Hater says:

      Oh, and another thing. We don’t have a 10 mph tolerance where I live (Victoria, Australia). Here it is a tolerance of 2 km/h (that’s a bit over 1 mph, and sometimes even less!!

      • Ernest T.Bass says:

        wtf who cares about australia ? what is happening in your country means nothing to me…….

        • LoneWolf says:

          You should care. That’s where your god, Redflex, originated from. I know I care because I don’t want your god imposed upon me. That’s not my religion. My religion involves a justice system that bases its judgement on the US bible, the constitution, not the bible that the false prophets of your god imposed upon us.

        • Camera Hater says:

          Yeah, yeah. And who cared about Europe in the 30’s? Being insular didn’t work too well in the past, buddy. It’s a small world and roll-back of civil liberties in one country tends to spread. A very narrow minded viewpoint, my friend.

      • stupidamerkin says:

        It just validates that it’s all about generating revenue under the color of law and justice when it’s really about justus.

    • Dr Jett says:

      You have to consider why the cities agreed to have the scameras installed. A slick salesman from one of the scamera companies lied to them about the HUGE PROFITS to be made by ROBBING their fellow citizens. Government employees are famous for being slackards who just want to live on the government dole. Their main objective is getting their paychecks and getting reelected to continue collecting money whether they do anything of value or not. Legislators should try voting for a budget that doesn’t include robbing the citizens.
      You should get together with Ernest T. because you believe that you were speeding just because a scamera said that you were despite the possibility that you may have received the ticket and you weren’t speeding. I wouldn’t teach my kid to bend over and take it in the ass because my government told me I should. Sticking up for your legal rights and believing in FREEDOM is what you should teach your kid.

  4. Zebra says:

    Good for you, Raymond. That’s the spirit!

    BTW. I’m going to come by later today with DPS painted on the side of my car, and ask you for the $200 you owe me for violating a traffic law yesterday. Which Law? It doesn’t really matter, because there are lots of them! Your license plate isn’t clean. You took your seat belt off so you could reach in the back seat while waiting at a light. Your headlights aren’t in perfect alignment. There are scores of laws you never even heard of just waiting to be exploited.

    It doesn’t matter because its THE LAW!
    Now pay up, like a good, obedient citizen.

    • Ernest T. Bass says:

      raymond… thank god you posted here… the last 2 CLOWNS are WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS COUNTRY… its not cameras…its people that want to blame anything and everything BUT THEMSELVES ….The Scam attacks you ? what a moron she is !!!

      you had the typical human response when they are caught doing something… getting mad…. unlike these clowns you had the sense to realize that nobody was controlling that vehicle but you….

      i commend you….

      • Camera Hater says:

        Ernest, if the system was perfect and limits were reasonable, and the tolerances for error were reasonable, you’d have a case. BUT NONE OF THE ABOVE ARE TRUE. Limits are set arbitrarily and deliberately low, with revenue in mind and not safety. Ditto for the 1 mph tolerance that applies where I live. The Police are totally unaccountable, and drivers are guilty unless proven innocent (overturning legal safeguards theat go back to Magna Carta). And the Police will only ever admit the cameras are wrong when forced to do so by expensive testing and evidence gathering PLUS a major media spotlight.

        Also you ignore our point. We don’t want anarchy. We want a robust HUMAN enforcement of ALL of the road laws. We ARE prepared to take responsibility. In fact, as responsible citizens, that’s why we’re working to have bad laws and unjust enforcement reversed. We’re actually working FOR a better society.

        • Ernest T.Bass says:

          sorry aussie boy…. 10 mph over the limit is very fair… and of course you want human enforcement,,cause there are never enough of them.. however the cameras can be all over and everywhere…. you and the clowns just dont like how the cameras even up the odds !!!! so now you and the clowns all cry foul !!

          • Camera Hater says:

            I said 1 (one)mph, you ignoramus! I have no problem with a 10 mph tolerance. And its not “evening the odds” that we object to. We object to the lack of accountability, reversal of the onus of proof, the lack of discretion, and the totalitarian nature of the cameras. That, plus the fact that many of the photo enforcement programs are illegal in jurisdictions in which they’re being rolled out.

      • photoradarscam says:

        Not to mention Peoria now, in addition to Tempe and Pinal County, is now reporting MORE ACCIDENTS because of cameras. These are government sources, and you’re still happy to have people and cars getting unecessarily mangled so the city and county can make more money. You are the one who is pathetic.

        You claim to take such care to supposedly drive the limit, but you driver around with expired plates and then get caught. You don’t exactly have a lot of credibility Jay.

        If you think cameras never malfunction, all you have to do is check But like the other poster said, they don’t publish all malfunctions. You can be assured we hear of only a small fraction of them.

  5. James Howard says:

    The cities in Florida didn’t contact ATS. ATS contacted them! ATS has a salesforce that goes around the country looking for places to put their cameras.

  6. Raymond says:

    Well, in a perfect world, which it isn’t… As for a role model, you don’t know me or anything about me or how I raised my kids. When I make a mistake, I admit it and don’t hide behind trumped up conspiracy theories or blame someone or something else. I never claimed to be any role model though I am gettiing the indication you think you are because you have taken this fight as your own. I am a man who believes in God, Family, Country and in doing the right thing. These are the things I am willing to fight for. And while you may disagree, that’s your right. We aren’t family, friends, co-workers or obviously share any common beliefs. So what you may think of me or your insinuations about what kind of man I am only mean something to you. It’s a shame that an opposite or different point of view can’t be expressed without you getting angry and confrontational.
    I paid the ticket when I got it in the mail. I wasn’t sure it was me that got flashed since there was other traffic around me. Not that I owe you any explanation but I gave it to you. Going right down and paying it has nothing to do with being a role model. The system ran its course and I paid as soon as I got the ticket. I never used the word role model, you did. But now I wonder if not accepting responsibility for your actions and making excuses is what people think being a role model is now. Guess I’m getting too old. I was taught to man up, take your punishment and move on.
    I don’t have fault with your beliefs. I have spent my entire life fighting for and defending your rights and protecting people like you even when I don’t believe in the cause. I took an oath to do so and I did. I take an opposite viewpoint and you get your panties in a bunch and start making insulting remarks and taking your cause into the gutter. There are 2 sides to every issue and it’s my right to take the opposite side if that’s what I believe. But I do keep an open mind to all opinions because I’m just a man who likes to get the whole story…true story before I plant my feet firmly and take a stand. The media, the web, nothing is what is seems. There are so many lies, 1/2 truths,and exaggerations out there that its hard to make a quick decision on any issue. My mind isn’t made up about anything and I have until 2010 to gather the facts. I just made a comment and it upset you.

    Zebra, 20+ years in law enforcement and I’ve pretty much enforced all those laws you say I never heard of….I’m not sure what your post is saying..Don’t obey the laws or just obey the laws as long as they don’t pertain to you. I would debate the law with you but it wouldn’t do any good. A free flow of ideas and concepts wouldn’t be possible. My guess is you don’t want any laws that keep you from your definition of a good citizen.

    And I’m sure that all these companies have sales forces but if the cities would have stopped them at the door you can bet no cameras would have been installed. You make it sound like ATS does whatever they want, puts cameras wherever they want, and gets all the money. None of this would be happening if the governments involved just said No.

  7. Camera Hater says:

    Hi, Raymond. That’s a thoughtful post and well written, though I don’t agree with some of the implications. For a start, it appears that you are arguing for absolute compliance, to the letter of the law, with every single “rule in the book”. Now don’t get me wrong. I am NOT an anarchist, and I am a firm believer in doing your utmost (within reason) to obey the law. In my own case, in 31 years on the road, I have only had two citations, which were honest mistakes (and which I took on the chin).

    But this new technology, so drastically increases the efficacy of enforcement, that it could be life altering. I read somewhere that, if law enforcement officials had perfect knowledge of everyone’s activities, that over 90% of the citizenry would face some kind of misdemeanour rap.

    In the same way that the brutal medieval legal codes were framed with deterrence in mind – mainly because most criminals didn’t get caught – I don’t believe our codes have adapted to this change in efficacy.
    Take the demerit point frameworks, which were generally framed in the days of “tape on the road” amphometers, at best. Now, we see hundreds of thousands of people with the licences in peril – not because they are driving any worse, but because any tiny infraction is caught. This is made worse by the outrageously low tolerances – in the jurisdiction in which I live, its 1 mph!!

    Do we really want to live like this? No-one wants to see the accident carnage of the past. But are we prepared to live like the downtrodden, spied on citizenry of the former Soviet Union to achieve that?? I think not.

    What annoys me in this debate is, firstly, that there is no balance between the legitimate demands of safety and a viable trasport system. By definition, a road system means objects moving at speed. In the yells for ever tighter laws and lower limits I have NEVER seen consideration of the extra hours of commute time, the “powers that be” are condemning people to. Nor do the “safety first” advocates consider what super-low limits do to the economy.

    Second, the titanic revenue avalanche we see flowing from the cameras distorts the debate. Here in Australia, we have a nasty little cancerous growth called the “road safety industry”. It’s an unholy alliance of Police, Camera companies and acamdeic “researchers”. Dependent on the fine revenue, they produce a string of academic research reports which “miraculously” recommend ever more cameras and lower speed limits (thereby generating more fines and more research $$$). And the enforcement slogan “Wipe Off Five” (km/h – they are obsessed with low level speeding)

    And all of this is based on the spurious assumption that a majority of accidents are caused by excessive speed. Oh, and the moronic notion that “the faster you go the harder you hit” (by which logic you’d re-enact the “Red Flag Act” of 1898 (I think) which required every car to have a man walking in front carrying a red flag.

    Like you, I like to get the whole story. The problem is that the huge sums of money involved distort the issue. Even though, on the surface, its no biggie, the ultimate question (how much surveillance do we want to put our citizenry under to ensure legal compliance) most certainly is.

    As you correctly point Governments are not saying no. They are ignoring time honoured legal safeguards, issues of fairness, and justice, in their pursuit of the almighty dollar. I was privy to one of the early feasibility studies on photo enforcement in the jurisdiction in which I live. I can tell you – the revenue projections occupied many more pages than the alleged lives that were hoped to be saved!

    • The question of safety or profit is no longer a question to me. It’s a statement of PROFIT regardless of SAFETY.

      Thanks for keeping up the effort of refuting long posts by nanny-staters who have nothing more to offer than “just don’t break the law.” That argument is so tired, weak and spineless in the face of our overbearing government, both at the Federal and State level, that it holds no water in this debate.

      And to answer the assertion that we are all a bunch of “conspiracy theorists,” one should look deep in deep in to their own frustrations about life before projecting your anger on to others. Everyone is a conspiracy theorist, it’s just a matter of whose theories you believe. If you listen to the Ernest T Bass’s of the world, every supporter of this cause is just conspiring to BE ABLE TO SPEED. Ridiculous.

      • Camera Hater says:

        If Americans had always had that “just don’t break the law” attitude, your Head of State would be Queen Elizabeth II of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (just like we backward colonials on the other side of the pond). Sorry to preach, but the reason America is the light of the world is precisely that Americans DO question injustice and eradicate it where they can. America DOES try to live up to the ideal. Historically, you haven’t had the mindless “the law is the law” attitude, as badly as us, or in extreme cases, the totalitarian regimes. That’s why it is all the more sickening for we foreigners to see that forelock-tugging attitude.

        Camera Fraud are not advocating lawlessness. They are advocating justice.

  8. Cathy says:

    You know, Raymond, a year ago I would have agreed with you: if you get a photo radar ticket, then you were caught doing something wrong and you should quit whining about it and pay the price. (Back in 2003 I got pulled over speeding on I-10. It was the last day of the school year [I’m a teacher], I was distracted, and I should have known better. It was my first speeding ticket ever, and the cop was really nice about it. I respectfully accepted the ticket and opted for defensive driving.)

    Then last November I got a red light violation photo radar ticket. Honestly, if at the time I had thought, “Yeah, I remember that. Okay, they busted me,” then I would have opted for defensive driving again (since I had a clean driving record and qualified).

    But instead, I thought, “What the…? I didn’t run a red light!” So I reviewed my online video.

    I allegedly “entered” the intersection .25 seconds “late.”

    Then I did a bunch of research. I came to find out that my right of expectation had definitely been violated: most left yellow arrows in Tucson are 4+ seconds, but the one they “nailed” me at was only 3 seconds. Also, the traffic-control signal in the median was 40 feet away from where the intersection technically began. No safe, prudent conscientious driver would, in my shoes, have been able to avoid that “ticket.” (For reference, I’ve lived in Tucson for 11 years and have 400,000 driving miles under my belt–so I ain’t no spring drivin’ chicken.)

    As a law enforcement veteran, you’re likely familiar with speed traps. Speed limits are artificially lowered and a motorcycle cop is planted to pull people over. It generates revenue for the municipality, but it’s also, usually, done in bad faith (i.e. for revenue, not for safety). However, with motorcycle-cop-speed-traps, the officer pulls somebody over, issues the ticket, then gets situated back in his original place. He’s limited to what, three or four tickets an hour?

    With photo radar, the revenue is more-or-less limitless, which sparks communities to forsake common-sense traffic engineering solutions and instead pursue the Almighty Dollar.

    This, Raymond, is the primary reason why I’m against photo radar.

    • Raymond says:

      One thing that never comes up is that cameras don’t show special treatment to violators. It can’t be bribed. The violation isn’t ignored because its another cop, or judge or politician, of friend or family. It can’t be enticed to forget the violation by an unbuttoned blouse and a phone numer. (Yes, this does happen)

      Where I worked, we had guys that loved writing tickets. We didn’t have speed traps but I was familiar with small towns and villages that were known for this. In todays atmosphere, any city that changes the light times or changes speeds limits with the purpose of trapping motorists to feed the kitty should be charged and fined.

      Cathy, I would never tell anyone to plead guilty or pay the fine for anything they didn’t do or didn’t think they did. If I wasn’t convinced that I had been the violator, I would have had my day in court. But when I showed up for my hearing, I would have pictures, diagrams, stats, anything that would make my case. Too many times, people just show up and tell a story and the judge doesn’t have anything to rule on but the evidence and testimony of the State vs just the testimony of the alleged violator. If you’re innocent, come to court civil but loaded for bear. Many times the judge will be so impressed by the efforts you’ve gone to to prove your case as well as your passion and your GOOD BEHAVIOR they will figure you must be innocent.

      • Cathy says:

        Raymond, you make a good point: the cameras don’t show bias based on cleavage or anything else. However, one person could receive a photo radar ticket for going 11 miles over the limit because her car was clean, while the person blasting through at 25 miles over the limit in his filthy 4 x 4 wouldn’t receive one because his license plate was covered in mud. The cameras might not be biased, but they aren’t objective either.

        It’s funny you should bring up fighting the ticket in court (even though I could have opted for defensive driving–it was the principle of the thing!). I fought my case and showed up well-prepared. I took photos of the intersection. I had all the relevant ARS’s memorized. (At one point the plaintiff [a former motorcycle cop whose job it is to handle these cases all day long] actually complained about me “throwing around all these fancy numbers.”) I presented myself professionally and confidently.

        I also asked the plaintiff a series of questions regarding my driver’s license photo. Then I proceeded to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he submitted false evidence and committed perjury. At first I figured it was a big deal. I mean, it’s perjury, right? Class 6 felony?

        Then, when the magistrate found me responsible anyways, I figured that perjury must not be such a big deal after all. (Note: the magistrate has no formal legal background and is married to the Assistant Chief of Police.)

        But then, when I reviewed the digital recording of my hearing in preparation for my appeal, I figured the perjury thing must have been important after all: someone had edited that part from the CD.

        In my appeal, I mentioned the incomplete record. I informed the superior court that I had researched digital audio forensics experts and would be willing to submit the CD for analysis AT MY OWN EXPENSE (on the condition that if tampering was evident, I would be reimbursed). The superior court completely ignored my offer and affirmed the lower court’s decision.

        As a result of this experience, I have VERY little faith in the court system. Maybe other courts provide some semblance of justice, but my experience proved to be just one corrupt travesty after the next.

    • Ernest T.Bass says:

      so you claim that in a motorcycle “speed trap” that they lower the speed? then plant the cop?

      i got news for you cathy clown..there is no such thing as a “speed trap”….. that is a phrase made up by law breakers to describe the method by which they were busted.. the mention of the word trap makes them feel as though it was somneone else fault….

      in the video you reviewed did you even come to a complete stop ? if you did not then you are guilty as charge… end of discussion..period… the law is when you make a right turn you have to come to a complete stop if you have the red light…. but feel free to keep blaming everyone but yourself !!!

  9. Camera Hater says:

    A very well worded reply, Cathy. Logical, and well-argued. That’s the worst thing about the cameras. The mindlessness of enforcement. Even if intentional, 0.25 seconds late, is an offence in name only. The data shows that the people causing accidents are those deliberately running lights seconds after the Red. In you case, a sensible human policeman might pull you over and warn you not to “cut it that fine” but that’s all he’d do, if reasonable. And, as a law abiding citizen, no doubt you would be a little more careful.

    You case looks like a plain old rip-off, with the situation structured so that you can’t avoid the “offence”.

  10. photoradarscam says:

    In order to have effective and just laws and a system that works, you have to have fair applicaiton of the laws. The recent Peoria story is a perfect example. They lenghtened the yellow lights and violations dropped precipitously.

    Did the drivers suddenly become better drivers? Did the “I’m-a-rebel-I-run-red-lights-on-purpose” drivers suddenly find other intersections to flock to? No! The city fixed the intersection so that a more drivers can navigate the intersection in a safer manner. So are all of the “extra” violations from before the timing adjustment the result of bad drivers and criminal intent? Of course not. These drivers were put in a situation where despite their best intentions they still ran a red light.

    The city chose revenue over safety. They chose to listen to the scamera salesman instead of science and traffic engineers. This kind of political decision making does NOT have the public’s best interest in mind, and that’s what we oppose here.

  11. Raymond says:

    I respect your views of the situation and many of them are well thought out and have given me more to think about. I was never a traffic cop; I went after those that committed violent crimes. I also feel that much of this has escalated since the State of Arizona decided to blanket the interstates with these cameras as a revenue generating source. That says a lot about the State’s priority and whoever decided to spin the camera turn out this way should have been fired. Users of highways are operating at high speeds anyway and that means there are times we must accelerate in excess of posted speed limits to maintain a safe flow of traffic, change lanes safely, or avoid a reckless driver. These situations are not taken into account and fall on deaf ears when you appear in court. I also feel that the camera flashes at night are distracting and cause more of a safty hazzard. I have always felt that these strobes should be shut down at dusk.

    Having been a victim of a a guy that ran a red light and am still suffering from the leg injuries, I am a supporter of the red light cameras. When I moved here a couple of years ago, I was told by people who lived here to “count to 3” before entered an intersection when your light turns green. They were right. Speed limits on side streets, in neighborhoods, and especially in school zones needs to enforced. Our streets are traveled by lots of pedestrians who walk to work, the store, or school. We also have lots of people who use bicycles as a way of transportation. Traveling in excess of the posted limits (even the 10 mph over that is given by the speed cameras)increases the safe stopping distance. Kids run into the street chasing balls or not paying attention, elderly people don’t cross the roadway as fast as they used to, people pull out of residential drives or shopiing centers or medical buildings and their error in judgement is compounded by the vehicle on the road traveling at 12 or 13 mph over the limit. At this point, pointing fingers and assessing blame does take away the pain or bring back the dead. Maintaining 45 mph in a 35 mph zone seems more than reasonable. Aggressive enforcement in school zones seems like a no-brainer to me. No one wants to live with the memory of striking a child when you’re doing everything right let alone when you’ve been speeding through a school zone.

    I know that the police department has officers assigned to traffic but they can’t be everywhere and trust me, when something happens one of the first things critics do is ask where the cops where. We live in a State that is on the front line of violence from illegals, have over 14,000 sexual preditors living in our neighborhoods, have experience serial killers, rapists, drop houses, gun battles between rival coyotes, home invasions, drug violence and now crimianls dressing up as cops to commit crimes. I want the cops that I pay taxes towards their $60,000+ salaries out catching bad guys and working on task forces to bring these preditors to justice. They have to do this while dealing with the economic crisis that means not filing open officer positions and cutting staff. As long as the people in the speed vans are trained, the equipment maintained and regularly serviced, and the city isn’t playing with speed limits to trap motorists to get more money, I don’t see a problem with the cameras on the side streets and school zones.

    But, I am learning more about this topic when it is explained without name calling or insults. Bad laws need to be changed.

    I know this is an anti-speed camera website and my views piss some people off and maybe I am asking for it by posting my thoughts. But how do I get both sides of the story and get the views of others if I don’t stop and read and then post my opinions. I am not here to poke my finger in your eyes or call you names. I just want to hear the logic of the other side.

    • photoradarscam says:

      Raymond, do you reall think a camera would have prevented your accident? Or just have provided good footage for the insurance company?

      We fully support enforcement of all traffic laws by human police officers. They could double or triple the number of police and we wouldn’t care.

      I think you would also agree that you can also increase police presence without increasing police headcount or payroll and taking away from other services. There was a recent article about a police chief who did just that by changning how POs were assigned and their duties and whatnot.

      If you want to educate yourself on the issue, there are TONS of articles and links on my website that will show and demonstrate all of the problems and deficiencies with PE.

  12. Ernest T.Bass says:

    raymond….dont let the clowns run you off of this site…. they actually thrive on people that disagree with them…. they even visit the site more often to see if we post…. but please….dont not give scam your respect….BECAUSE HE WILL NOT AND WILL NEVER RESPECT YOUR POINT OF VIEW…..EVER !!! keep in mind that he felt that the reflex employee that was killed deserved it because of whom he worked for…. a man like that can not be dealt with rationally…. again show him no respect !! he does not deserve it

  13. Ernest T.Bass says:

    raymond….dont let the clowns run you off of this site…. they actually thrive on people that disagree with them…. they even visit the site more often to see if we post…. but please….dont not give scam your respect….BECAUSE HE WILL NOT AND WILL NEVER RESPECT YOUR POINT OF VIEW…..EVER !!! keep in mind that he felt that the reflex employee that was killed deserved it because of whom he worked for…. a man like that can not be dealt with rationally…. again show him no respect !! he does not deserve it

    hail the cameras

  14. Ernest T.Bass says:

    ray…dont let the clowns run you off of this site…. they actually thrive on people that disagree with them…. they even visit the site more often to see if we post…. but please….dont not give scam your respect….BECAUSE HE WILL NOT AND WILL NEVER RESPECT YOUR POINT OF VIEW…..EVER !!! keep in mind that he felt that the reflex employee that was killed deserved it because of whom he worked for…. a man like that can not be dealt with rationally…. again show him no respect !! he does not deserve it

    hail the cameras

    • photoradarscam says:

      Still on the drugs I see. 3 identical posts?

      I have never said he deserved it. Everything is archived here online. Please show us all where I said that, liar.

      • Ernest T.Bass says:

        back with the drug comments again..maybe you should talk to the others here that are self admitted drug users.. they dont post here at all..they hand out at the discussions pages…

        you did write that and i have no interest in proving anything… you asserted that since he worked for an unamerican company that steals from people that he got what he deserved… i may not have all the exact words but that was the jist of it… you can call me a liar all you want… but those that have been here awhile and dont wear tin hats know exactly what i am talking about

  15. Ernest T.Bass says:

    and you forgot to leave out a little important detail about the posts from those threads that dealt with the murder… many things were deleted by the administration and i am sure that yours was also as it was inflammatory…. of course you would challenge me to find something that you know was deleted..that is all part of the deceit that goes on at this site…

  16. stupidamerkin says:

    You can walk into these dens of corruption, (courts) knowing how the game is played, make all the right moves and it is still a crap shoot. Bottom line is that there is no such thing as remedy any more in what we call courts across the land period! These black robe devils and criminal prosecutors make up the rules as it goes along and they all have an endless supply in their bag of tricks that has absolutely nothing to do with justice, ethics, moral rights let alone real law. It’s all about more power and money and the means justifies the end in their mind.

  17. stupidamerkin says:

    This isn’t about the Constitution, justice or even law. It’s about the corporate controlled state and generating revenue by fleecing your wallet or locking you up creating more revenue through bonds.
    There is no difference in someone stealing your wallet then someone stealing out of your wallet.
    When will we wake up to the reality that the justice system has morphed into the justus system in stealth mode & those in control of their local empires seem to have a level of absolute power and we know what that breeds. Bottom line is our system is corrupt to the bone from the scum bottom to the scum top period!

  18. stupidamerkin says:

    Get a rope

  19. Steve says:

    You people posting here are the funniest group of people I have ever read. Conspriacy theorists to just plain nuts. Thanks for the funny pages.

  20. Hot Girls says:

    Live Models that are Hot

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: