“Oh, no! These systems will neeeeeever be abused…” yah RIGHT
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I know we can trust our politicians to “do the right thing” and continuously avoid the temptation of millions of dollars in a system set up with little public scrutiny or oversight.
and i think you are correct!!! it does not appear that arizona is having any of these issues…. i sure hope that those who are in a position to absuse the system visit this site so they can be aware of the potential harm that a revelation such as this could cause..
“…it does not appear that arizona is having any of these issues….”
Who guarantees the accuracy of these devices? There is not oversight of these devices. DPS says they oversee them, but they have too much vested interest in them. So do the camera companies. I am sure DPS will attest to the accuracy, even if they are calibrated to read on the high side.
I can tell you right now that the camera on NB I-17 at Dixileta is not reading right, unless they have it set to trigger at 4 MPH over.
I have GPS reading from when I went by that one on Saturday afternoon. I was going 59 MPH(according to the GPS and the speedometer), and it was flashing everyone it could. It was like a strobe light at a night club. I phoned it in to DPS and there answer was that the units don’t malfunction.
I will have to wait and see if I get a notice from it. I wasn’t on my bike, but driving this time. I looked the log from my GPS and it stated that I was going 59 MPH in that area.
yet yet yet yet yet yet yet!!!! but but but but but but but but but but but!!
lots of yets and buts…. and no substance behind what you claim!!
as for your little story of a malfunction…. why not call redflex?
who knows mark… you may have uncovered the smoking gun!!!!
Ok – how about “that we know of”. Just think, last week 81,555 people in Italy thought their citations were legit.
Actually they are having these issues in AZ. Falsified court documents and lying process servers working for a company related to Redflex… and lawmakers willing to overlook these agregious actions.
So how many accidents have you been in involving speeders? Any? Yet? Hmmm? Using your logic, there is absolutely no substance behind your paranoid fear of ever being in an accident with a murderous speeder. You’ll support these cameras because you think people doing 15 over are a threat to your life (even though it hasn’t happened and the chances are extremely minimal that it would ever happen), but when someone points out flaws and corruption that are inevitable with these machines, you belittle and insult. Again, you show your hypocritical stance and your constant presence on this site exudes even more paranoia than most.
oh its meNtelhead…. i stand corrected …you made it more than a week….then again you have not posted for more than a week… 15 miles over the limit is 80 mph in a 65 zone…. and yes…. i do think that many drivers that go that fast can endanger the safety of not only myself but others as well….if you do not agree fine!! i really dont care and did not ask for your opinion….
the flaws and corruption were first of all in another country with a different camera company and it involved a criminal conspiracy.. !!! that is not going on here… signs not being placed at the right distance and some process servers forging documents is not the same thing…. but CF and its members would like to draw a direct line to what is happening there to redflex and it is wrong…. these “flaws” (which is not what that article was about) and corruption are NOT inevitable!!! death is inevitable !!!
“15 miles over the limit”
Next time, open your mind to metelhed’s logic, numbnuts. He didn’t just say 65 MPH zones…
Since a VERY LARGE majority of drivers go 70 in a 55 where there’s no photo radar squeezing them (see the 101 N/S through Tempe/Chandler, aside from that one mobile unit that is almost always there on the northbound side at the 101/60 transition), you are definitely in the minority.
“these “flaws” (which is not what that article was about) and corruption are NOT inevitable!!!”
Power and corruption go hand in hand. You sure do like to bury your head in the sand, don’t you…
Resorting to juvenile name calling? That’s a glaring sign you don’t have any rational argument to refute my commentary. I told you not to mess with me, LAB. Your shaky position just got weaker. How many collisions have you been involved in with someone who was speeding? Since you refused to answer, I’ll bet the answer is zero, meaning your paranoia about your life being threatened by those murderous speeders is unsubstantiated and baseless. You come here and try to act smart and pretend you have some moral ground, but you don’t. The massive amount of time you spend here shows your true colors and reflects badly upon you (that is, if you are really just a concerned citizen, and not being compensated). The flaws and corruption involving Redflex and ATS have already been pointed out by this very site and others like this one, yet you choose to either ignore them or explain them away, just like a politician who doesn’t want to be caught making a firm statement due to the fear it will come back to bite them.
mentalhed…. of course you with the halo on are blameless with the name calling… why of course you are!! what was i thinking? and just WHY? was i not suppose to mess with you? i have made my statements… i will answer the questions that you pose to me if i see fit… and you can read anything you want into my non answers… most of what i have seen from you is just trying to provoke me…. that may have worked on others at web sites you have been to before…. but not with me… my opinion of you so far … you are just a fly !!! now shoo fly shoo!!
He acts like a seven year old that had his sucker taken from him.
well mark…. one thing is for sure…. it is not you that could take my sucker !! you have nothing dangling!!!
I’m just waiting for the pro-camera trolls to come along and rationalize this “rare case of corruption” without saying, “Well, it’s still illegal to speed,” or some other ill-aimed, banal crap like that.
This is a classic example of why saying, “Just don’t speed and you’ll be ok,” is NOT OK. That logic requires the blind belief that the government’s (or their administrators’) idea of what is right and wrong will always match ours. This is not an absolute truth, and when the day comes that the two are out of whack, the government will hold all of the cards – and you, the common man, are screwed… unless you stand up to them when necessary.
hey bj… do you know where italy is? do you live there? why are you concerned with anything more than a passing glance of what is happening across the Atlantic Ocean?
the pro camera trolls just so you know… seem to be having a hard time sending posts… seems that we never know from day to day whether we have access….and when we do it is limited…. AND what a surprise…. when you shut the trolls out…. to quote a tom petty song … the members ” dont come around here no more”
it appears that doc, stacey and ,mark have jumped to the discussion side, where trolls are forbidden, so they can shake hands and slap backs with no interference… and tell themselves how great they and their cause are and how the government sucks….
doc and stacey… i have news for you… you are not the only ones who cant wait until you get “the hell out of this state” and while you are at it… keep driving !!! when you hit an ocean get on a boat !!! and steer until you hit land again….
“hey bj… do you know where italy is? do you live there? why are you concerned with anything more than a passing glance of what is happening across the Atlantic Ocean?”
Lame red herring attempt (I guess you think that Americans are better than Italians and are naturally immune to corruption due to our nationality?). You also had no response to the main points of my post.
With this post, you’ve actually made many azcentral.com posters sound intelligent…
BTW – It may be that the other posters you cite (and probably don’t want to hear from you) – doc, stacey, etc. – grew weary of your stupidity and shut you out so an intelligent discussion could be had elsewhere without your 100 post a day whirlwind of BS.
funny how it is BJ that you dont want me here… but you want me to respond to every part of your post….how does that work? the main body of what you wrote is the same BS only written on a different day and time!! so no need to respond…. and you are dead on that doc and stacey dont want to hear from me or any other troll that may have a different opinion…. they like being in a glass bubble where they are the only ones who can control who comes in…. doc is the typical alpha male who only likes to be told he is right and he is the only one that counts…. how sad for his family!!
“funny how it is BJ that you dont want me here… but you want me to respond to every part of your post… how does that work?”
There you go with your psychobabble – with no valid response yet again.
To be fair to you and to answer your question, I’d prefer it if you didn’t post at all because it just adds unnecessary length to the threads here.
BTW – Trolls, whether they have an opinion or not, don’t add anything of merit to the overall value of a discussion. Why? They can’t communicate their “opinions” without first being a sophistic, unjustifiably acerbic a-hole that just wants to cause trouble.
Trolls like yourself who can’t logically respond to valid, logical points generally turn to insipid tangents (“funny how it is BJ that you dont want me here” or about how Italy is a different country?) and personal attacks (“how sad for his family” or “do you know where italy is? do you live there?”).
If you’d just listen more and attack less, you MIGHT realize that not everyone that disagrees with you is a self-aggrandizing idiot living in a bubble to insulate themselves from your genius, but I’m not holding my breath. Old dogs generally can’t learn new tricks…
I went to a dinner party last night for my cousin’s 30th Birthday at a Country Club, just full of people with big families with 3rd Generation AZ kids. I was discussing this website and couldn’t find ONE person, liberal, conservative, libertarian or otherwise who was in support of the Napolitano DP$ big brother system of ticket scams in the name of “safety.” Not one.
The only people I’ve spoken to who support the cameras are those who “like the facts that there are less cops on the roads now and I just throw out the tickets.” On PhotoRadarScam’s blog, he outlines the fact that 20% of accidents are due to “speed exceeding the posted limit.” 20%!
So we have taken cops of our freeways to go after “speeders,” when tens of thousands of accidents have nothing to do with speed and are more likely attributable to erratic driving. Photo tickets have nothing to do with erratic driving.
This is complete lunacy on the part of our politicians, for-profit photo ticketing companies and the select few ostriches out there who keep their head buried in the sand of fake tickets and statistics. There, how was that for a member response that can be picked apart by tiny troll hands?
well then!!! there you have it!! i hope you had them sign the petition and better yet i hope they are registered to vote!! otherwise it was just some good conversation!!!
To clarify, 20% are not due to exceeding the posted limit as stated by twitter. The fact sheet says that 20% of all accidents occur over the posted limit. The cause can still be anything besides the speed. Only about 6.7% of all accidents are caused by exceeding the posted limit. This causes about 3000 deaths in the US each year, a paltry 0.1% of all deaths. More people die in fires, or from falling, or being poisoned than die from exceeding the posted limit. There’s approximately one death due to exceeding the posted limit per BILLION miles traveled.
check it out scam…. “crack kills” … well crack doesnt actually kill… what kills you is the vital organs that crack can have a devastating effect on… but we all know that if you avoid crack you will not die of these things… speed kills scam…. it does …. it may not be listed as the cause of the accident….but it was the factor that lead to the cause…. so it ( speed) really does kill…. you can throw all the useless stats you want out…. the fact remains the same!!! crack kills and so does speeding !!!
great “major updates” to your site!!! let me know what they are… i couldnt find them…. except that you cant comment without having to sign up…. just a hint …that will not encourage people to comment !! H E L L O !!! anybody home McFly?
I think we should get the legislature to set a statewide speed limit of 5 MPH on ALL roads and highways and arrest anyone going 0.1 MPH over that limit. Take away their license and car for not less than 1 year for every .1 MPH over the speed limit with a maximum penalty of 100 years. They would also have to spend at least 6 months in jail, pay restitution to ALL residents of the city/county where the infarction occurred to be not less that $20 per resident.
This will solve all problems of injuries, deaths, and property damage caused by speeding.
Oh, forgot to add that the residents/businesses in the cities/towns/communities would be allow to issue the tickets using their own speed sensing equipment, whether homemade, bought or otherwise. The people owing the equipment would be the ones to guarantee the accuracy of the equipment and records of the calibration of the equipment would not have to be kept. It will be on their word that the equipment is accurate.
Dirty pool has already been played here in AZ, lest you forget:
“At North Valley, part of the problem was due to highway signs, or the lack thereof. For a significant period of time, people received tickets for going 66 or 67 in a 55 mph zone. The problem was that the temporary 55 mph sign was often after the camera. As such, we have had hundreds of hearing requests. Thus far, drivers in this category have almost always been found not responsible at their hearing.
and if that was the case then those tickets should be tossed!! however, that does not mean that a criminal conspiracy existed!! nor does the judge mention it…. he does raise a good point about the same fines and penalties being in effect between regular fines and PE fines… but that would bring more issues than there are now…. i have no doubt that janet did what she did to keep public outcry to a minimum… to have the same fines and points would have stirred a hornets nest…. as it is.. what was enacted only stirred up some fly’s !!!
however, if there were “speed reduced ” signs in place i have a problem with the tickets being tossed… if you come accross those signs regardless of what the speed limit was before the signs you should be reducing your speed…. but that never happens… in fact all i see if assholes either increase their speed or do not slow down at all!!!
Speaking of signs, how about obeying the slower traffic move right ones? Hypocrite!
better yet… how about you obey the posted speed limit… if you did that then you would not need for me to move.. there are lanes to the right…. feel free to use them!!
You failing to yield is just as illegal as speeding, and “probably” more dangerous.
don’t bother, i pointed out this fact to troll months ago, he will just pull his usual “you do right then maybe i will too” horseshit
And these slow moving people still drive slower than the speed limit in the left lane.
i dont yield to anyone!! how could it be more dangerous? cause some blow hard like yourself gets frustrated cause you cant do the spped limit so you take chances and cut people off to get around…. no its not my actions that are danergerous…. its yours!!
sorry mark…. if its 65 thats what i do…. unless of course you come up behind and do one of the following
1. bright me
2. tail gate me
3. start swearving to see just what it is ahead that is causing the slow down….
either one of those actions will for sure force me to reduce my speed and i relish the fact that it just pisses you off!!!
but the best part is when you finally go around me but dont have the balls to even look my way…. real tough guy when your behind me…. but when the confrontation comes you are nothing but a chicken sh$t……. i had you pegged mark from your first post!!
its nice to know that i make your blood boil over so much you forget what you are here for!! a bunch of mental midgets!!
Actually, every idiot I have to pass on the right because they are driving slower than the flow of traffic in the left lane, I DO look to see what kind of retards they really are. I WILL look at the driver when I get next to them. I ride a motorcycle.
Go ahead, drive the 101 from Bell to Camelback at 6:30 AM and I WILL pass you. I will confront you if you make the decision to try and run me off the road while I am passing you.
Let me see you put your chickens__t a__ on a motorcycle. You are the one that does not have any balls!
“either one of those actions will for sure force me to reduce my speed and i relish the fact that it just pisses you off!!!
but the best part is when you finally go around me but dont have the balls to even look my way.”
What do you want people to do? Pay attention to you and your mission to piss people off, because YOU are so important, just to validate you somehow? (If people looked at you as they passed long enough for you to get your jollies, they’d be a threat to other drivers due to inattention, which is FAR more dangerous on the road than going 80 in a 65, 70 in a 55, etc. They have better things to do – like drive their car.)
BTW – I quickly look at everyone I go around, and in 80% of the cases, it’s 1) a woman in a womanly vehicle (minivan, Toyota Camry, some smaller “green” vehicle, etc.), hands at 10 and 2 o’clock, 2) someone talking on a cell phone, or 3) both. (The elderly are slow drivers as well, but they generally congregate in the lower lanes, respectfully and wisely out of the way…) The remaining 20% are either totally oblivious, full of pride, or – the worst kind – out to “teach you a lesson” (definitely you).
Dude – You are the genuine article – an OCD, narcissistic psycho – that is 100x more dangerous than even the “extreme” speeders (as AZCentral labeled them).
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my first thought after reading this was how nice of you to include your sister in your irresponsibility !! how nice for her… but igmoring the ticket may bring more harm to her than you…. so feel good that you are “off the hook” but it may not be that easy for her…. but hey… as long as your conscience is clear!!!
I have no problem with someone forcing Redflex to follow the law as determined by the Arizona state appeals court. If we have to follow the law, why should Redflex not have to?
Arizona State Appeals Court Photo Radar Decision
Full text of the 1992 Arizona State Appeals Decision forbidding the mailing of speed camera tickets.
In 1992, the Arizona State Appeals Court ruled that mailing of speed camera tickets to motorists violated the law. It required “personal service”, that is, hand delivery, of any violation.
Appellant attempted service by mail under Rule 4.1(c) by complying with the requirements of Rule 4.1(c)(1). Without a defendant’s voluntary complaiance with the requirements of Rule 4.1(c)(2), service is not complete, and no personal jurisdiction over a defendant is achieved. In that event, a plaintiff may attempt service by any other method authorized by Rule 4.1 with the costs of service shifted to the defendant who failed to execute and return the acknowledgment of receipt.
sounds like you have grounds to ask someone who may have an opinion to render one…. otherwise ….. your post means nothing…. but some ill fated attempt to imply that sending a ticket through the mail is wrong…. dont you think that all of this was considered before they enacted the law? and while it certainly sounds like a winner… it is not !!!
i am not sure what you are complaining about.. this is exactly the kind of behavior that CF and its members support !!! oh no they dont come out and say it…. but by having the cameras removed CF is encouraging people to break the law unchecked… cause we all know there are never enough cops on the roads…. atleast the cameras help even the odd’s !!
get mad all you want to…. but you support it by supporting the petition drive !!!
and least we not forget that he was a card carrying member of camera fraud!!!
what a disgrace to my city he was!!! now lets get some cameras in this town and reduce the city budget defecit!!! i mean…. lets make the roads more safe !!
remeber its all about safety!!
no… just catching up from being being “semi banned” since last thursday by kanaris!! i have alot to get off my chest…. tell you what scam..if you have never done drugs in your entire life … not even once… you can point a finger at me… problem is …. neither have I !! and i find very few people like myself…. my guess is that you experimented with something.. like other great members here…. doc and his sidekick come mind…. so when you point the finger at me…. 3 are pointing right back at you….
I have NEVER done any type of illegal drug EVER. Not even once. So does that mean I can point all the fingers I want? I don’t know if you do drugs, or not. I really don’t care. It’s not any of my business. But constant vigilance on a web site that you do not support, And posting at all hours of the day and night, And posts that ramble on and on without any substance or ability to stay on topic. Would lead me to suspect either some kind of a chemical dependency. AND/OR some kind of chemical imbalance/psychological disorder. My guess is the latter.
Looks like hypocrite is pointing fingers. I know he drinks:
walter- my posts make great sense to me… i only sleep about 3 hours at a time…. then up for a few then back to bed… thats why i post in the middle of the night…. i think my posts have substance and they dont ramble on and on….
mark- yes…. i have acknowledged that i drink alcohol…. millions of people do…. and do i have a problem with it…. not at all….. you really should be careful about what you accuse me of…. it may not help with your lawsuit against me…. i mean its not like i admitted to using drugs at this site !!!! oh and didnt you say you murdered your dealer?
“my posts make great sense to me…”
The problem with crazy people is. Crazy people don’t know they’re crazy.
“i only sleep about 3 hours at a time”
A.D.D, A.D.H.D, Axis 1, Axis 2, I would get some profecional help. If I were you.
No, Troll’s problem is not ADHD. Contrary to popular belief, ADHD is not so much … hey look, a butterfly
thanks for caring walter…. but really … i am fine…maybe you should worry less about me and more about your mission…. you know….collecting signatures!!! kind of funny that you didnt post all weekend….. then my posts go through and presto!!! you are back in the game…. do you hold your posts until i post? sure looks like it to me… i think the more you try and discredit me…the more you look the fool in the clown suit!!! well i have to go see what lies stacey and doc are spreading on the discussions page!!
damn somebody has their panties all jumbled up !!
so stacey doesnt like the way the elected officials are doing things so she whines and moans and complains bet never offers any suggestions….
now she doesnt like the discussions page and instead of offering up some suggestions she slams the administration…. wow..i wonder if this will finally push her over the edge to leave the state?
oops broke my promise already…. almost forgot
H A I L T H E F L A S H E S !!!
I leave this place in worse shape than when I arrived and for that I am happy.
so long and good luck ( you will need it ) on the signature collection. my return visit will be to mock you after the collection effort fails…. a few i told you so’s will be in order at that point in time for me to distribute!!
until then…. drive safely and remeber ..its all about safety !!
just say no mark !!
4 posts in a row troll!!! Have some more meth!
I like your moniker. I haven’t been on the site for awhile, but you still have plenty of others to respond to with your usual BS. I just don’t want to take a chance that someone will blow by me at 15 over. Oh wait, a cop car went by me going at least that fast the other day. I would guess that you must have PTSD if you only sleep for 3 hours at a time. If you have this much free time, I could help you with a business opportunity where you could at least make money contacting people. Why waste it here unless you get paid. Oh, can you get me a job at Redflex too?
I have NEVER done any type of illegal drug EVER. Not even once. So does that mean I can point all the fingers I want? I don’t know if you do drugs, or not. I really don’t care. It’s not any of my business. But constant vigilance on a web site that you do not support, And posting at all hours of the day and night, And posts that ramble on and on without any substance or ability to stay on topic.
So…you are all saying that the most efficient way of government is wrong? I thought we want our government to be efficient…a camera catches 10,000 speeding cars if all of them are speeding, while a patrol car catches how many, or two, or three patrol cars?
Oh…and if you don’t speed you will not be issued a ticket. I rather have enforcement officers fight and prevent real crimes, like drunk and on drugs drivers (DUI checkpoints), theft, neighborhood watches, etc…
Also…the traffic lights are POSTED at various distances…throughout states that have adopted this form of ticket enforcement.
A law enforcement system must also be as accurate as possible and minimize false convictions. That is why we have jury trials, guilty until proven innocent, etc. Our justice system could be a lot more efficient if we just got rid of the burden of evidence, proof, and having to convince 12 pesky jurors. If only we had a czar who could hand out sentences and punishments on a whim. That would be really efficient.
If someone invents a law enforcement system that is highly accurate and efficient while preserving rights, then it should be considered. The problem is that photo enforcement is not accurate enough! Aside from machine malfunctions and equipment problems, the wrong driver is identified more than 28% of the time because the driver is not the registered owner! A 1 in 4 error rate is unacceptable.
Furthermore, it is not necessary to catch every single violator to reduce violations. Perception of police visibility and perception of high liklihood of being caught is all that is necessary for most would-be leadfoots.
Cameras do not free up police officers. DUIs are caught by officers on regular traffic duty. We are told that cameras are not supposed to reduce the number of officers on traffic duty. No one is “freed up” for other crimes. I do not want a reduced police presence on our streets, and neither should you.
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