Redflex Shooting Suspect In Custody


shootingOur most sincere thoughts and prayers are with the victim’s family, friends and co-workers in this horrible and senseless tragedy (See Update 5 below for statement).

Those wishing to offer condolences (letters, cards) to be forwarded to the family may send correspondence to:

Condolences
C/O CameraFRAUD.com
3029 N. Alma School Road #107
Chandler, AZ 85224

Updates start at the bottom in chronological order. Updates 7 through 15 are from today’s press conference.

Update 17: Press conference photos courtesy CameraFRAUD flickr.

Update 16: ATS makes misleading statements to the media trying to play the blame game. Stay classy, Josh Weiss.

Update 15: Reporter: “Have you been in contact with CameraFRAUD.com”? Phoenix Police: “No.”

Update 14: Suspect is 68 years old.

Update 13: Phoenix Police:  “Motive is not an answer we have yet…. We’re still in the gathering stage.”

Update 12: “…photo enforcement not going away” says DPS Lt.

Update 11: Horror: Victim was killed while on phone call to his wife, according to Phoenix Police.

Update 10: Suspect caught in thanks to hero DPS officer remembering vehicle from his own neighborhood.

Update 9: Vanderpool: Mobile photo van program “suspended indefinitely.”

Update 8: DPS Director Roger Vanderpool uses tragedy as a talking point to support constant live video surveillance.

Update 7: Press conference begins; Phoenix Police confirms suspect name is Patrick Thomas De Stories.

Update 6: Suspect name is allegedly Tom De Stories.

Update 5: CameraFRAUD issues statement: “We are shocked and mortified at this tragic loss of life, and we express our sincere condolences to the family, friends, and co-workers of the victim. Today, we stand with those in the photo enforcement industry in mourning. On the news of the suspect’s capture, we look forward to justice being served.”

Update 4: Law enforcement officials have a news conference set for 3:00 PM according to KTAR.

Update 3: Blogger for pro-automated ticketing paper AZCentral tastelessly starts playing the blame game.

Update 2: Redflex suspends all DPS mobile radar operations; ATS reportedly suspending their city-based vans.

Update 1: A suspect is in custody, AZCentral reports.

Original Update:
From ABC15:

A contract employee, who was shot multiple times while inside a photo-radar van in north Phoenix, has died. It happened at about 8:30 p.m. on the Loop 101 near the 7th Avenue exit. The victim was transported to John C. Lincoln Hospital where he later died.

119 Responses to Redflex Shooting Suspect In Custody

  1. James S says:

    Catch the bastards.

    You cannot put private contractors (who are unarmed) in a vehicle dressed as law enforcement.

    There are people who have problems with any symbol of the law… those who might be on the run and get pulled over and just kill a police officer for no reason.

    What did Redflex do to ensure this driver’s safety?

  2. Pete B says:

    DPS Dir. Roger Vanderpool: This man’s blood is on your hands for your callous disregard for EVERYONE’S safety with this entire disastrous experiment.

    And all in the name of money. Disgusting.

  3. geez says:

    oh nice your Mike9500 is so pleased is see.

  4. geez says:

    I’m sure when the killer is found you all will start crying about his 4th amendment rights and work up a defense fund, using money from your so called ‘condolences fund’ alot of freaking huevos to even do something like a condolences fund. If I was this guys family I would shove whatever money you gather right back up your arses

  5. camerafraud says:

    Geez: We’re not collecting money. We’re offering those who wish to write a letter of condolence / card the opportunity to do so.

    If and when a need is expressed to support the family in any way, we will publish that information here.

  6. annoymous says:

    i jus wanna say i’m sorry to the van driver’s family and i feel your pain… good luck to everyone out there and i hope they catch the individuals who are responsible for this will pay for what they did not only for da drivers family but for da drivers work family… please pray for all of us we do nothing wrong

  7. anonymous says:

    Just a quick comment about going back and forth with the arguing. This is a man who’s life has been taken, it is very disrespectful for anyone who comments on this to place blame on any one other then the selfless inhumane people who did this. This is not a classy way to argue whether or not you agree or disagree with the cameras.

  8. Ed S. says:

    This is a further example of photo radar and its harm to all. Even officers get shot on duty, but they are generally prepared and have a chance to shoot back, this poor guy wasn’t armed or ready. No matter how people think photo radar sucks, this is a bad deal all the way around. If you’re mad, go run over a fixed camera, we will all applaude, don’t ever hurt anyone over his mess. Whoever did this, you aren’t cool, legitimate protestors on this site aren’t proud. PETA and ALF don’t hurt people, they damage property making it less profitable to operate. This senseless act won’t do a thing to halt photot radar, probably make it more resolute. Now think of the starving family and possible young kids without a dad…. good luck sleeping, whoever did this. BTW, as you age, you start to grow a conscience, so even if you can sleep now, as you age it will bother you, you will see his face in your sleep, you will think of his wife and kids, family, etc….sucks to be you.

  9. Lorin Thwaits says:

    I anticipate that whoever fired the rounds was under the impression that the vehicles sit unstaffed while in operation.

    It becomes a sobering tragedy in this whole saga. Perhaps cameras save lives, and in rare cases also take them.

  10. jgunn says:

    Condolences to the family who won’t be seeing their loved one again. A big middle finger to DPS and Redfux for trying to profit off laws and angering the public enough that this sort of crap is happening. Stop the madness now! Get the POS vans off the streets before someone else is senselessly killed.

  11. Stacey says:

    There was absolutely no reason for the employee to be shot and killed. Our thoughts and prayers go out to this man’s family.

    We are collecting signatures for the ballot initiative to stop the outsourcing of law enforcement. If you want change, you vote on it. Intimidation is a repressive tool that makes a mockery out of democracy.

  12. This single death, while a terrible tragedy, is nothing compared to the hundreds and thousands of increased accidents and fatalities that are caused by photo enforcement. As an example, in Tempe there were 3 extra traffic fatality events in 2008 because of cameras.

  13. I'm Back says:

    This is a truly sad story. I hope the shooter is caught and brought to justice. What a cowardly act.

  14. dgpjr777 says:

    Scam get the FUCK over it on this post ! People cause the accidents,not the cameras. There is no reason for someone to do this,none at all. My condolences to the family for this driver. DPS and Redflex did not cause this, some ASSHOLE did. Protesting against something is one thing but this is totally uncalled for, no matter what you believe in ! This bastard needs to be found and given the death penalty.

  15. Redflex having problems getting cameras going in Pima County: http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/hourlyupdate/289475.php

  16. BJ says:

    A question nobody is asking…

    Is it possible that these two men knew each other, and that this had nothing to do with photo radar?

    The dead Redflex employee is 51, and the suspect is allegedly in his 50s-60s…

    I think that until this crime is solved, if it is, people shouldn’t jump to conclusions about the motive of the shooter.

  17. BJ says:

    One other thought – HB2106, the AZ legislature’s proposed ban on speed cameras, has a clause in it that says that the video footage from all camera units cannot be used for ANY crime in any way.

    The only evidence that can be used for this crime is the video footage, and that will be glaringly pointed out during debates over this bill when they get going again.

    IF you, the shooter, thought you were helping us get rid of photo radar, you may have just dealt the best bill on the hill a huge blow. Thanks…

  18. To Todd da Man and Pey Le Ale, a man died over this. I hope you both have real hearts to look beyond the cameras and not say such ignorant comments for all to see.

  19. To BJ, how would the shooter know who was inside the vehicle, I am sure the mobile unit operators don’t disclose and tell everyone where they are at. They all move around, that is why it is called a mobile unit.

  20. Stacey says:

    How strange, Todd da Man, Pey Le Ale, and Jaded Judas have never posted here before. Probably our resident troll.

  21. sammie says:

    Todd Da Man and Pe Le Ale… Both of you should rot in hell. Yeah we all hate the cameras.. but enough to say it is great news when a man lost his life??? What in the hell is wrong with you?????????

  22. Dan G says:

    This is definitely the WRONG way to fight these photo violators. All the actions that I’ve taken have been and will continue to be LEGAL. If any of you feel so strongly against these cameras that you want to shoot something I would urge you instead to use your energy collecting signatures for balloting and drive folks to the polls if needed for voting these monstrosities OUT.

  23. John Q Public says:

    This man was just an employee, probably got laid off in this tough economy. He just replied to an add in the paper for a job to support his family…he was probably doing what he had to for his family.

    He certainly did not deserve to be MURDERED for doing what he had to…just to get by. These are tough times for many people…none of which deserve to be MURDERED.

    Everyone who posts a comment other than our hearts and prayers go out for this mans family, friends and co-workers probably have psychotic tendencies and need counseling and medication. Bottom line…He did not deserve to be MURDERED just sitting in a van doing his job.

    Thinking that the MURDER of this Husband, Father, Son, Brother…this man will in anyway help your cause is seriously deranged. This incident has tainted your cause in blood and set you back more than you will ever know.

  24. This man was just an employee, probably got laid off in this tough economy. He just replied to an add in the paper for a job to support his family…he was probably doing what he had to for his family.

    He certainly did not deserve to be MURDERED for doing what he had to…just to get by. These are tough times for many people…none of which deserve to be MURDERED.

    Everyone who posts a comment other than our hearts and prayers go out for this mans family, friends and co-workers probably have psychotic tendencies and need counseling and medication. Bottom line…He did not deserve to be MURDERED just sitting in a van doing his job.

    Thinking that the MURDER of this Husband, Father, Son, Brother…this man will in anyway help your cause is seriously deranged. This incident has tainted your cause in blood and set you back more than you will ever know.
    P.S.: Forgot to add great post!

  25. John says:

    Well here is another example of what good it does us all to have these cameras up EVERYWHERE! People are getting fed up already, these need to be used in a more appropriate manner, not just put up wherever they feel they can milk motorists for cash. This whole system needs to be better regulated and revised. An innocent man died because of the overuse of these needless cameras. There are way too many people out there who are not all there mentally, all it takes is another flash of a camera at some disgruntled armed motorist and the shooting may happen again. TAKE THEM DOWN!!!

  26. me, myself and i says:

    Our thoughts and prayers are with the family of the fallen operator from Red flex.

    Some of the posts here make me sick people, you may or may not agree with photo enforcement, I see both sides of it, in some cases I fully agree with photo enforcement i.e. (school zones etc…) in others I don’t feel that great about it i.e. (freeways etc…). But some of these statements are disgusting in their very nature and you all who posted to be held accountable for your statements. Ok so photo enforcement zones are posted in the newspaper and fixed locations are known already right? Now constructions zones are also published and known correct? So because I don’t read the paper or I don’t pay attention while im driving and I get stuck in a construction zone can I shoot a construction worker for DOING HIS JOB????

    You all are 100% against “big brother” have you ever had a family member killed and the justice was brought only by a photo camera? You say it causes more “rear end” accidents… well pay attention and follow the speed limits and stop following so close and guess what??? Because these cameras are up and catching speeders, and red light runners everyone is pissed off, well I guess it’s really only the speeders and red light runners who are pissed off, so why don’t you get off of your high horses and remember that a man died while doing his job. If you went to work no matter what your job is and you got killed and people were saying “good” and “go guns” etc… imp sure your family would not feel very good about it. Go to work to get a pay check in these very troubled times and get killed…um yep sounds like the American Dream to me. A man died people, forget your politics (both sides of it) and keep that in mind. If you don’t like Photo enforcement then write a letter, do your peaceful protests, send your e-mails tell the people out there who can change the laws but standing up for this MURDER well you should be held accountable for your statements. I know we have the right of free speech but Camerafraud.com should police their site a bit better. All the public is seeing right now from my point of view is that you all advocate this and are happy that a man died while doing his job, take the posts down if you do not advocate the activity.I for one used to check your site on a fairly regular basis, but shall not be returning to a site that lets the public speak about “its about time” and so on.
    you guys wanted to make a statement well you have! hope your statements bring heart warming feelings to the family of this downed opperator.

  27. Joe says:

    Unfortunately, I knew it would only be a matter of time before one of these poor guys got killed, but I always assumed it would be due to an accident. Never did I assume that it would be a violent act.

    Think of the psychology of these things if some knucklehead kid is willing to go up to one with a pick-axe and attack it directly. Clearly these cameras are really drawing the ire of many. That does not mean I condone any violence.

    They put these people in vans marked as police vehicles, which (in and of itself) makes them a target to those who simply have a beef with police. It also provides false hope to a passing motorist who might actually NEED police assistance only to find a Redflex contractor inside.

    A few guns, a few beers, a few bullets, a really bad day and a photo radar ticket are possibly all that were required to set someone off. Anyone in a vehicle marked “police” should at a minimum be a trained (and armed) law enforcement officer.

    Bottom line is that the enforcement of laws is best left to sworn law enforcement officers.

  28. kandaris says:

    To All:

    This incident is a tragedy and camerafraud in no way supports violent or illegal activity in our campaign to remove surveillance from our public roadways.

    Since CameraFraud is an open forum we cannot completely control the comments of individuals who conform to our very basic rules of posting. It is not beyond the realm of possibility that those who wish to discredit us as an organization will post in a way that attempts to make it appear that we somehow support this kind of behavior. I urge you all to refrain from responding to any individual that attempts such posts.

    Let me make it clear that any attempt to use this as political leverage by either side is patently immoral and I will delete comments that cross the line.

    This incident should not be used as political fodder or as leverage in a cause either for or against. The man who did this is a criminal in no uncertain terms, and he murdered an innocent human being.

    Our sympathies and condolences are respectfully offered to the family and loved ones of the victim.

    …end of story.

  29. Joe says:

    The other sad thing is that this guy was not even a Redflex employee. He was a contractor. Redflex is willing to send their equipment out into harm’s way, and you can be damned-sure that the equipment is insured, but in regards to people? No way. They sign them up as “contractors”, which essentially means “no insurance”.

    The only thing this poor guy and his family will get from Redflex (after all is said and done) is a handshake and a greeting card.

    Redflex contractors: I can’t believe you’d sign up for this gig, putting yourself parked on the side of highways, with no insurance. Stand up for yourself and demand to be insured!

  30. RPr says:

    Phoenix PD made an arrest

  31. BJ says:

    “Bottom line is that the enforcement of laws is best left to sworn law enforcement officers.”
    ***************
    This was apparently a turkey shoot, so it wouldn’t have mattered who it was in the car.

    To be clear – Did the car stop, someone got out, walked up to the van, and fired several shots point blank? Or was this a slow driveby where someone had a high-powered semi-auto?

    IMO, this leans towards a crime of passion if it was the former, because they would’ve thought to disable the running cameras before driving away to cut the amount of evidence, if this was a cold, well-planned ‘hit’.

  32. BJ says:

    “You all are 100% against “big brother” have you ever had a family member killed and the justice was brought only by a photo camera?”
    *************
    Let’s all scream out, “think of the children!” at once…

    Please….

    I’d rather die in a free society than live in a country where every move is watched, ‘just in case’…

  33. Lenore says:

    That’s what happens when you push people too far. They get desperate. Lets hope it doesn’t make the camera situation worse.

  34. ilovecameras says:

    To all tho morons who blame DPS for this, your all idiots. This is the fault of one a**hole who took it too far. You want the cameras gone, stop speeding. Speeders also take the lifes of innocent individuals.

  35. Derek says:

    Yes this is an unfortunate tragedy and my thoughts are with his family.

    The unfortunate reality is that these types of things can and will continue to occur as we slowly see our freedom and rights taken away. Hopefully the lawmakers will realize this and do the right thing by eliminating photo radar in all forms before it gets worse.

  36. ilovecameras says:

    Our freedom and right to speed is being taken away? Lives are being taken away due to speeders all the time. Redneck morons that think they can take the law into their own hands are the cause of the tragedy last night. It’s very simple, stop speeding, obey the speed limit, and the cameras won’t be needed. You want to speed, join Nascar.Im sure if one of your kids got runover by some a**hole going 20 over the limit, you’ll be first d***head crying for them to slowdown.

  37. Nick B says:

    Let me start this by saying I do not work for Law Enforcement or Redflex and I am not in favor of Speed Cameras but accept them as a fact of life. Some of the comments already posted seem to blame either DPS or Redflex for this murder. Why? Speeding and/or running red lights are offenses and if you get caught doing either you have no-one to blame but yourself. As individuals we get to pick and choose as to which laws we choose to obey or not but if we choose to ignore said law because we don’t agree with it then we suffer the consequences of our actions. There is a very simple solution to speed cameras, reactions to camera flash etc etc. Don’t speed!!! If I decide Banks are a bad thing is it OK for me to rob one? Can I complain about the law if I do rob a Bank and get caught? Realistically we all know the answer to that. Sites like this one have been aggravating the situation by allowing posts advocating violence to remain on the site. Not true you say:- How about this one;

    Mad As Hell Says:
    December 5, 2008 at 7:11 am

    I say we should do what they are doing in Great Britain and France….Burn them all with a tire and a little gasoline. They cost $100, 000 to replace. Maybe then they\’ll get the message.

    Or;

    Can someone here setup a legal fund account at a local bank branch? Just check the azcentral.com website for the number of people looking to help this guy out. That was not the smartest thing to do but his heart was in the right place.( This was posted in regard to the man who took a pick axe to a camera.)

    They do not advocate shooting someone but it is fair to say that violence escalates from the small things to the big things. It started with Post-It notes, went to boxes, moved up to pick-axe attacks and has now reached murder.

    The man shot was a Redflex employee. He was paid to do an unpopular job. He was not law enforcement nor was he pretending to be. The speed vans have DPS badgeing as they are leased out to DPS for Photo Radar use. They remain Redflex vehicles and their employees operate them.

    How anyone can find anything other than total disgust for the Murderer amazes me. If it was your family member would it be OK? How anyone feels they can justify this savage attack because it was a Photo Radar related crime shows the complete lack of human emotion or humanity that the/those posters have. Also a distinct lack of common sense and intelligence.

    To Joe Says from earlier;

    ” The only thing this poor guy and his family will get from Redflex (after all is said and done) is a handshake and a greeting card “.
    I assume you took the time to call Redflex and verify what you say? If you didn’t then you just reinforce the common misconceptions and aggravate this atrocious situation.

    To sum up. Murder of an individual is murder. Nothing justifies it under the law. To protest cameras, get elected and change the law from the inside. Violence can be an answer but not over something as minor as speeding!

  38. Joe says:

    Nick B:

    The victim was reported (by several sources) to be employed as a contractor. Contractors are non-employees, but rather, are contracted. This allows the company to circumvent the insurance benefits that they pay to “regular” employees.

    And where is the bullet-proof vest that other people placed into “police vehicles” have the higher priviledge to wear?

  39. dgpjr777, You get over it. The city of Tempe claims an 18% reduction in minor accidents because of the cameras. The same report shows an increase of 43% in fatalities in the same time period, so it is because of the cameras too using their report and their logic. Without the cameras, the fatality numbers would be DOWN, not UP. 43% more fatalities in Tempe because of cameras, and no one is concerned.

    I’m just saying, let’s keep this in perspective here. We should have sympathy and condolences for ALL victims of photo enforcement, not just the ones on the news.

  40. ilovecameras says:

    accidents are probably up because morons slam on their brakes when they see cameras, therefore causing accidents. you wanna speed, say cheese for the camera then.

  41. Law A.Bidingcitizen says:

    so dereck.. the solution is … if you dont agree with what govnmt does… eliminate them? and if you eliminate enough people they will get the message and you will have affectd change! is that your statement?

    i again think it is sick what some such as scam have written…. yet scam never gets his posts deleted.. Kandaris…. you can distance yourself from this entire topic … but until you delete posts that in any way blame an innocent person who was doing his job… you are knee deep in it!!!

    [ADMIN RESPONSE: We have taken appropriate steps to prevent callous comments from being posted by people on both sides of the argument by temporarily requiring all comments to be approved before being made public. We are having a large influx of traffic from around the web and the “Internet Toughguys” and trolls are out in full force. Please report any inappropriate comments to abuse@camerafraud.com. Thanks, DT]

  42. thedude says:

    Has anyone else had a decrease in insurance since these things hit the road? I didn’t think so me either😦

  43. Nick B says:

    A reply to Joe Says.

    If enough people spout incorrect rubbish does that make it correct? If you had bothered to check, as I did, you will find that the driver is/was a 3 month EMPLOYEE of Redflex not a contractor as you seem to want to persist in calling him. Until you reach the point of fact-checking BEFORE opening your mouth ( posting ) then you are part of the problem not the solution.

    If you also truly believe that a bullet proof vest should be worn by a person manning a photo radar van then you have my utmost sympathy for your obvious lack of mental acumen. Though I have to say as you are not the only person with this attitude, that perhaps Redflex, ATS and similar companies should look at b/proof vests and then what,,, guns, so the employees can fight back. ( Tongue firmly in my cheek ).

  44. Law A.Bidingcitizen says:

    im sorry.. the only internet tough guy i see posting here is scam!!!

  45. Clue says:

    The google street view image of the Tom De Stories home has the suspect vehicle in the driveway, down to the irregular paint on the tailgate. That should wrap it up, no?

  46. LAB, why does it “make you sick” that I advocate for the same sympathy for those killed in accidents caused by photo enforcement?

  47. Evan says:

    I grew up around Roger Vanderpool, and he is a bit of a family friend. It really saddens me to see what a political puppet he has become. He went from a respectable officer, to good ol’ boy sheriff in Pinal County, to Janet’s puppet. How can he sit there and continue to tow the same line with all that has transpired around photo radar? Attention Governor Brewer: IT IS TIME TO APPOINT A NEW DPS DIRECTOR!

  48. Walter says:

    This is truly a tragedy. The man who did this is a coward. My prayers go out to the family of the van operator.

    If you want to do something to get rid of photo enforcement. Pick up a pen, Not a gun. Sign the petition. Not only is the pen legal. It is far more effective.

  49. VoiceOfReason says:

    Redflex employees do not have any more protection than the contractors they hire do–where do you get your information from?

  50. Law A. Bidingcitizen says:

    phoenix pd news conference just finished up.. i didint hear it all…however, i heard a few things..

    the spokesman said… “the director has said that the cameras are not going anywhere”

    Lt.Mark Ramsey was the key in this case… he was involved in reviewing the video footage.. he recognized the Suburban because he lived in the same neighborhood as Mr.DeStories for 14 years..

    Tom Patrick DeStories.. 68 years old, no criminal record and no traffic citations of any kind… he pulled up behind the van… came to almost a stop..then slowly drove around the side of the van and opened fire on the victim.. who was on his cell phone and talking to his wife at the time he was shot!! at about 9 am this morning with his house under survelience he moved the vehicle from the front to the back yard… it appears that he has a big enough back yard to pull it through the side gate…

    now.. a question was asked by a reporter about CF.. i could barely make out what they said…. however, i think he asked if Mr.DeStories was a member of CF to which I believe the spokesman said he did not know…

    lot of questions they did not answer because they do not have the answers yet … more to come…

  51. Ryan says:

    After this man is brought to justice and the family grieves for the victim we as a community are worse off over this. Tragedy and senseless violence do little to help a cause. The ax-swinging guy is one thing, but to take a human life in an act of definace sets us all back in our goal.

  52. Mike says:

    This is the guy who was arrested:

    [URL Removed by Administrator]

  53. Joe says:

    Nick B wrote:

    “Until you reach the point of fact-checking BEFORE opening your mouth ( posting ) then you are part of the problem not the solution.”

    Apologies Nick. I used the “crack reporting” of the AZ Republic as my source. I did not know it meant they were on crack.

    Anyone who sits, unarmed, in a vehicle that says “Police Vehicle” marked on the side, should, in my opinion, be outfitted with a bullet-proof vest.

    Actually, correction: I don’t feel they should be there in the first place. Just as I do not agree with the whole “Posse” concept. The whole point of having trained law enforcement officers is to have TRAINED officers out in the field enforcing the laws. I think last night’s unfortunate turn of events supports my point very nicely.

  54. Mark says:

    It is sad that it had to come to this. Way over the line.

    That said – Since DPS is good at twisting the facts around (ie the cameras saved three lives), do you think they will now say that this death was a direct result of the cameras? Had the cameras not been there, he probably wouldn’t have been murdered.

  55. Law A. Bidingcitizen says:

    well mark thanks for pointing out the obvious… and we would not have 4000 plus americans dead who were fighting 2 seperate countries if not for… you got it…. the war!!!

    come strong or do not come at all!!!

  56. Glyph says:

    Press Conference photos here.

  57. Doc says:

    My thoughts & Prayers go out to Mr. Doug Georgianni’s Family during this difficult time. May he rest in peace.

    Doc

  58. Marbro says:

    take down the cameras

  59. Stacey says:

    Without a doubt, DPS needs to get rid of that idiot at the helm.

  60. Joe says:

    First and foremost, I want to send my condolences to the family of Mr. Georgianni. What happened was absolutely senseless. He signed up to do a very unpopular job to make some extra cash to help his family. There was most likely never an expectation of danger. Now, with that said, it makes me sick to say this, but this was a perfect storm waiting to happen and honestly, I’m surprised that this hasn’t happened more often.

    First, most people don’t realize this but the people operating these mobile cameras ARE NOT POLICE OFFICERS. They are not trained, and I am sure like every other private company out there, they are forbidden from carrying so much as a can of mace to defend themselves. Of course, Redflex could spend the money to have bulletproof glass or other armor plating put on their vehicles, but that would cut into profit margins. Shame on Redflex!

    Second, the Arizona state government created this monster. No, they didn’t pull the trigger, but they put these cameras up when people are already hurting financially. It was only a matter of time before someone snapped. Of course, had the state government actually balanced its budget in the first place, they wouldn’t have needed to place this extra tax on our roads. Again, let me re-iterate that I find the violence to be horrible, but I called this one years ago and for once, I am sorry that I was right.

    Finally, this tragedy could have been completely avoided. Instead of using unarmed un-sworn citizens to do police business, the DPS could have purchased some motorcycles and put cops on them. Sure, they cost a bit more up front, and they work. In LA, you see motorcycle cops everywhere on the freeways. Nothing beats a visible uniformed presence with a brain.

    Rest in peace. Once again, it is going to take a senseless and horrible tragedy to knock some sense into the powers that be, and there is no guarantee that anything will change after this. If I worked for Redflex, I would have walked out of work today.

  61. Ben says:

    my condolences to the victim and his family & friends.

  62. It’s very obvious this man whom shot a employee is not a very smart man.

    We all are very unhappy with these speed cams.
    We need to get rid of these cams, CAN THE CAM.

    The one(s)to blame are the people whom claim to represent the “PEOPLE”.These folks signed the contracts, and could not even put America first with that contract.
    Simply put “THEY, the so called leaders need to be taken out of office in a CIVIL manner, it’s called voting, LET YOUR VOICE BE HEARD, JUST AS WHAT WAS DONE WITH LAST WEEKS TEA PARTIES.

    PEOPLE FIND YOUR VOICE, MAKE CHANGE IN A CIVIL MANNER.

    Let the so called people whom claim to have the peoples interest know this ” THEY WORK FOR US”
    If they can not get the job done, they need to be fired and Not allowed back.
    If you did not get your job done, would you get a raise and still be around ?

    I dont mean to turn a tragedy into a rant.

    For those of us that are true thinkers and change angents,WE MUST BAND TOGATHER AND FIND OUR VOICE.

    We should have a rally to honor this fallen employee.

    To the family, I say I am sorry for the loss of a good man,I am sorry one man acted in such manner and was not a thinker,just an old PUNK.

    God bless

    FMR Marine,
    Citizen thinker.

  63. WOW says:

    I sure wish I could join in on the conversation

  64. ISAIDSO: says:

    If you hate the cam or not does not matter at this point. A life is gone and you should have no reason to say anything about unless to give your condolences for the family. You can blog your opinion about this at another time. “The fall of mankind is the acts and voice of their intension”

  65. Jason Zape says:

    Citizen thinker (FMR Marine)-

    Is it safe to assume that you are for increased illegal immigration enforcement/prosecutions because “we need to be enforcing our laws”?

    Yes? Then let me preemptively call you a hypocrite.

    (PS, I didn’t think there was such a thing as a FORMER Marine)

  66. Zeigh says:

    Test. Are these comments open to the public?

  67. B sl says:

    weak, I say weak. These comments are filtered. My comment was spot on. Why are you being weak.

  68. B sl says:

    Roger Vanderpool and all of DPS are trying to score political points and grand stand off a mans death, how pathetic and sick are these people. NO respect for the victim what so ever.

    The people have been trying to get those accident causing fraud vans off the roads for some time but did they listen? NO, It’s all about the power and the money.

  69. Cornholio Mangus says:

    The false dichotomy is really annoying: Killing Good versus Police State Good. Alternately: Murder Bad versus Citizen As Cash Cow Bad.

    When I was in grade school, I learned that it was a bad idea to enrage someone. If I did so, and then they harmed me for doing so, that didn’t mean that I deserved harm by them. But, it also follows that you have to expect people to react when they are provoked. When you provoke someone, you don’t know how they will respond.

    This incident is tragic. It was also predictable and avoidable. I am not saying that this murder was justified; only that there are always fringe members of society, and that one should be mindful not to needlessly provoke them.

    Citizens across this country are incensed at being treated as cows to be milked by the government. This particular cow, killed one of the tax farmers. Yes it was evil. Yes it was tragic. It was also perfectly predictable, and unless the state changes its ways, it will be repeated. (That is prediction, not advocacy, in case you couldn’t tell.)

    As far as this guy getting killed for doing his job, med die on the job every day. Delivering pizza. Working construction. Putting out forest fires. And working the tax farm. Way it is, folks! No one forced him to be a subcontracted agent of the state.

  70. Marbro says:

    This really sux, if these cameras werent around in the 1st place, this would be avoided.That company really used this poor old man. I know darn well, this was a scenario that was thought out by this Red Flex company. Doesnt take a genius to figure out theories about, what if- some guy shoots up a camera van. Red Flex, just sat by and let it happen. Everyone knows they could of gave that poor guy a vest. But hey, they didnt. All it takes is one employee to die, on the job, then all of a sudden, they have all the reason in the world to add more surrveilance and cameras, everywhere in az. Guess who’s part of the profit, Red Flex. I bet that company is not even going to help with his expenses, Law enforcement is already using his tragic death as a wild card, which is pathetic. Its a very sad day in Az, the day when a citizen vs citizen. I think the best thing to do right now, is flood emails at our state Reps and governor and tell them to act on this.
    I for one don’t like dictatorship style government.

  71. Mark S says:

    I was not expecting this type of death of a scam van operator. I was expecting an out of control vehicle ramming one of these scam vans and killing the operator and or other vehicle operator.

    My condolences go out to the family of this individual. We should have expected that something of this caliber was going to happen eventually.

    Has anyone ever noticed the huge “bumpers” that are on some construction vehicles and the vehicles that place barricades? The photo vans should also be equipped with such an energy absorbing bumper to protect the operator in the case of another vehicle hitting it.

    We have to wait and see what redfux and ats are going to do to protect these operators from any further tragedy.

    Bullet proof windows and armor plating? I doubt it, too expensive. Bullet proof vest? Just protects the body, not the head.

    It will probably be a remote operated van. The driver will park the van and set it up, and then another vehicle will transport the operator to a remote location to monitor it. It does keep the operator safe, but the vehicle will still be vulnerable to vandalism or other messing around by someone.

  72. Daniel says:

    I would just like to say that it is a travesty what happened to that poor man an this family. If anyone thinks in any way, shape, or form that he deserved it;……. go f yourself and I hope the same thing happens to you

  73. Kerry says:

    Are people really that ignorant? Do you think these vehicles drive themselves? Of course there is someone in it, and if people were not flying on the streets and highways then there would be no need for these cameras! So for all you DUMB ASSES who are speeding all the time, remember its your fault the cameras are now out there to catch people

  74. jessi says:

    i think the cameras are a good thing because the stupid poeple that drive that fast it keeps them concious of there speed and they will be most likely not to speed to kill poelpe on the streets and for the tickets to be almost $200.00 they will think twice
    about going over the speed limit:)

  75. Zebra says:

    Well, for what it’s worth, the suspect hasn’t had any photo tickets, if http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/publicaccess/ is up to date.

    I suppose it wasn’t too far off base to immediately speculate that the shooting was related to photo enforcement, since the victim was in a van, and the issue is controversial.

    And ‘first-time-poster’ trolls who make new accounts to spew their poison are pretty commonplace these days.

    But the statements by some of the news media were shameless attempts to fan the flames. I am really very unimpressed with KPHO trying to tie this website into a murder.

  76. duece says:

    To Marbro:

    You got to be kiddin, right? “If the cameras were not around, this would not happen.” Based on your thinking, if our kids did not go to school, Columbine would not of happend. Or if we did not mail letters, postal shootings would not of happened. Lets provide every working citizen in the United States a bullet proof vest really?. How about if speeders did not speed, this would not of happened. You blame Redflex and make no mention of blaming the suspect.

    I hate the cameras. But you know what, they work.

    My thoughts and prayers to the friends and families of the victim. May God watch over you and help you through these difficult times.

  77. Brian Keves says:

    I have read a number of comments on this blog about how the death of Doug Georgianni was his fault, the company’s fault, DPS’s fault or the overlord, dictator State government’s fault.

    Traffic cameras exist for one reason only. People in our society do not take responsibility for their own actions and since these are sometimes dangerous actions, other people must be protected from them. As the number of irresponsible people grow, the counter actions have to grow as well.

    A driver’s license is not a right. It is a privilege and when the privilege is abused the government must act to protect it’s citizens. It is an unfortunate truism of the lack of responsibility and we are seeing the results in recent changes to driving laws.

    If you as an individual want to see traffic cameras go away, then take responsibility and stop breaking traffic laws. Stop drinking and speeding and driving. If your response to my request is that I can do that but what about everyone else, you now understand the government’s problem.

    Now of course that we have shown how profitable traffic cameras are, there is also a financial incentive that didn’t exist before we showed it to the government. So I guess all of this is really our fault, collectively. So before you go slinging around the blame, look to yourself and ask if you have always been a safe driver who doesn’t break any traffic ethics.

    I can’t because I just got flashed the other day speeding.🙂

    And above all violence is no way to solve issues. Condolences to Mr. Georgianni’s family.

  78. custador says:

    Road traffic collisions in Britain have HALVED since the introduction of trafic cameras. FACT. And our speed limits are MUCH higher than yours are in the US.

  79. Law A. Bidingcitizen says:

    maybe now a post will stick on this thread..

    this death was tragic and certaily avoidable IF we could read peoples minds and see into the future. with everything comes risk.. some have suggested bullet proof cam vans…. we dont even have bullet proof police cars!! a vest would have done nothing as it only covers the neck down!! cops routinely stop on the side of the road…. that is a risk…

    it bothers me deeply that someone would shoot at a cam van… it bothers me when someone commits acts of violence intended to hurt someone… i am not wired like that and i believe that 99.999999% of people are not either… but to try and draw a line from redflex to the dps to this shooting is wrong… for every cop dies should we draw a line to his agency ? and blame it on them?
    the only person responsible for this murder is the one who thought it out and then carried out his plan… we now know who that person is..

    in my worst fears i never thought that anyone would shoot at a cam van…. of course i never figured someone would post that he “made his bed”, referring to the victim of this case… that from the mind and fingers of puke gammill!!!

  80. seethemsquirm says:

    My condolences to the family.

    As much as I hate the cameras, I would NEVER wish anything like this on any redflex or ats sub-contractor or employee.

    For the lack of a better place for further comments, I will place them here.

    DPS does indeed have responsibility in this as they endorsed splashing their logos/insignia all over privately (foreign) owned vehicles to make them seemingly more official. Prior to the deployment of these vehicles if you saw a vehicle with police/DPS logos, logic would tell you there was a cop inside.

    Companies that use “contractors” as employees pay no unemployment, workers comp, federal/state taxes, social security, medicare, etc. This in essence cuts expenses and liability for the company and makes them more profitable. Sounds like redflex is not contributing to anything here and is just reaping profits to send out of the country.

    In order to get around paying any of the above, the contractor cannot be paid as if they were an employee, ie: hourly wage or salary. Additionaly you cannot set requirements for hours to work or how many days a week the contractor must work. If you do that they become employees. That leaves few options, it can be a bulk amount for a set time period or on a commission basis. If they are paid a per ticket commission that would make for some interesting conversation.

    DPS, when you re-deploy the vans, please just have a Redflex logo on them, don’t try to give the impression that there is a sworn peace officer inside. Would it really bother anyone if they had a huge Redflex logo on them instead of DPS? Really? Soooo, by placing DPS logos on the vehicles, that means that they “wanted” to give them impression that there was a DPS officer sitting inside. Shame on you DPS! This poor guy’s blood is on your hands.

    I am glad they caught the a$$hole that is aledgedly responsible for this horrible, unnecessary crime.

  81. Paul Huebl says:

    Extortion is a dangerous game. I’m not shedding tears for anyone but the citizens of Arizona who have government’s nasty hand in their pocket.

    There is only one solution here, take the damn cameras down for good!

    Government needs to go on a crash diet. Our founding fathers did much worse to extortionists.

  82. Dawn says:

    You know what people…these cameras are good for our streets and freeways…the only people that have a problem with them are the people who have a lead foot and break the law by speeding but can’t handle getting caught. Weather it is a cop sitting on the side of the road or a camera or van there are SPEED LIMIT signs posted….following the f%$&$# law and you wouldn’t be b&%^%$#$^ about the cameras and vans!!! Look at some of the accidents that have happened at intersections where these cameras are posted…If it was you child or family member t -boned at an intersection you sure as shit would be happy to have that photo radar camera right there catching the person who hit your loved one..quit speeding and you should have no problem with having the cameras posted…

  83. guttersn1pe says:

    Kerry – when I first moved here I actually thought Scottsdale parked the van, tunred it on, locked the doors and left to pick it up later. I never imagined they’d pay someone to sit in a van. I guess I was ignorant about how these worked.

    Jessi – Stupid people drive drunk, weave in and out of traffic, tailgate, along with a plethora of other obnoxious driving behaviors that the cameras don’t catch. The smart one’s register their car’s in the spouse’s name, company’s name, trust’s name, etc. and don’t have to worry about photo tickets. Don’t be so naive. Speeding still happens.

  84. Vince says:

    This is no time to make any kind of points(pro or con)…Let us wait for all the details, until then, assumptions are worthlesss, and in some cases indecent and hurtful.

  85. Trick Plate says:

    I would like to offer my condolences to Georgianni’s family, friends and co-workers. It’s tragic when someone allows something as trivial as photo radar to set them off like this.

    Life is just too short to get this angry about ANYTHING.

  86. ilovecameras says:

    To Citizen Thinker:

    First, you must obviously not be proud of being a Marine, since you say your a Former Marine. (Once a Marine, always a Marine?)

    Second, learn to spell.

    Third, are you saying people should’ve voted if they wanted the cameras in the first place? So should we vote on who gets parking tickets, who gets tossed in jail for rape, stuff like that? Cause I thought that type of stuff was there to keep us safe, just like the cameras. Just because you want to drive down US-60 going 90 doesn’t mean everyone else needs to be put in danger. Speed limits are there for a reason, to keep us safe. I don’t want to drive down the street with my son in the car when some moron hick is flying down the road because he doesn’t give a rat’s a** that the speed limit is a certain amount. You have somewhere to be? Leave earlier.

    All you moron’s obviously don’t give a damn about the public’s safety. You all have diarrhea of the mouth.

  87. BJ says:

    More thoughts after getting more information:

    1) If I was on a jury, and I read the following (as reported by AZCentral), it would look pretty damning:

    “The van was hit five times with large-caliber bullets, according to the report, with three of the five shots grouped in a tight pattern around the driver’s side window, near where Georgianni was seated.”

    If the bullets had been spread across the entire vehicle more evenly, in a, “Screw you, photo radar van!”, like pattern, it would give an, “I didn’t know anyone was in there,” argument some weight. I’d need to see a photo of the bullet pattern on the car.

    2) We may see a lot more unmanned photo enforcement technology taking the photos, such as that orange barrel covered camera as reported here, and a lot fewer manned vans right on the roadside. That will make spotting the photo enforcement tech a lot harder to spot. This is bad for everyone because it will lead to more dangerous braking incidents – even with the two “Photo Enforcement Zone” signs.

    3) The DPS spokesman (the bald guy – I don’t recall his name) finally took off his mask and showed his true colors. He PASSIONATELY said, “Photo enforcement is NOT going away.”

    Up until now, the spokesmen of DPS, when testifying before state legislators, have claimed to be personally neutral on this issue, keeping up the pretense that they were objective observers, thus being fully capable of stating objective, untainted views about this system (vs. the anti-camera “crackpots”). However, this emotional incident cracked their well-placed PR masks and exposed at least one of their top spokesman’s true colors.

    They are NOT going to give up photo radar – EVER – without the law making them do it. They are as firm in their resolve as we are, and it’s going to take a LOT of work to make the cameras go away on our part.

  88. Joe says:

    So… IS the guy a member of CameraFraud.com?


    [Admin Response: Our member list is public and can be searched or joined by anyone. That being said, we have no record of communications or membership from this individual. ]

  89. Rick Thompson says:

    The loss of this Redflex employee is very tragic and i only hope they execute this worthless piece of shit that commited this horrible crime.Iwas driving out on the carefree highway one morning and came across a mobile radar vehichle that had it’s front windshield smashed in by a rock or some hard object and my first thought was i wonder if anyone was injured in this random act of violence.I totally disagree with using the camera’s on our freeways but obviously cannot condone such acts as useful to rid ourselves of the photo enforcement camera’s that adorn our highways.It amazes me that people can put the blame on DPS or Redflex for what has happened.The camera’s don’t cause crime anymore than spoons cause Rosy O’Donnell to be fat.There are always going to be idot’s out there whom for whatever motivates them create such havoc and commit such horrible crimes that no matter what we do it will never end.Godspeed to the family that just lost their loved one Sunday
    Rick

  90. Joe says:

    Ahh, so my question is being moderated. C’mon.

  91. You’re right ilovecameras. If people and lawmakers cared about the public’s safety instead of money, the cameras would be down by now.

  92. Stacey says:

    We control our government, our government doesn’t control us.

  93. guttersn1pe says:

    What an overly simplistic point of view you have there, ilovecameras.

    You and your son are probably the ones in the fast last, doing 57 mph, and steadfastly refusing to move to the right to allow faster traffic to pass. Because, damn it, you have the right to drive in the fast lane. Then you complain when traffic swerves around you doing 65 (or 70 or 75).

    Getting from point A to point B, with many other people trying to do the same, should a collaborative effort. But it’s not. People don’t pay attention. They love to talk on the cell phones, text, eat, etc. When they realize they’re in the fast lane (doing 57 mph) and about to miss their exit, they’ll cut everyone off so they won’t be inconvenienced instead of just getting off when safe and going back.

    But it’s much easier to blame speeding for all our traffic problems.

  94. Username says:

    I can’t believe people are blaming the victim here, DPS, Redflex, etc.

    This falls squarely on the shoulders of one freak who thought he’d have the support of camera haters out there.

    …and to an extent, he’s right. There are some people who support him while others excuse his actions.

  95. ((-_-)) whut'd_u_expect? says:

    Society was built on open discourse, expression of opinion, diversity of thought and sharing ideas; silence ushers forth tyrants. Insightful communication is a process, even maestros must hone their craft. R.I.P.

  96. […] Redflex Shooting Suspect In Custody Everyone’s most sincere thoughts and prayers are with the victim’s family, friends and co-workers in this […] […]

  97. I just heard about this story the other day. It’s very unfortunate that a man died because of this. But when I heard this happened, I immediately thought, “Well, it’s finally happened, someone snapped because of these cameras.” But I agree with a few of the comments here that the cams may not have even been the cause. I guess we’ll all just have to see what the guy’s explanation is.
    If the past has taught us anything, non-violence resistance is usually the best course of action and can accomplish a lot. I blog about these cameras, and how useless and unsafe they are, and Camerafraud is doing a great job getting awareness out there. These cameras have already caused enough harm, why add to it?

    Finally, I have some comments to the comments by Brian Keves and Dawn:

    Dawn said:

    “You know what people…these cameras are good for our streets and freeways…the only people that have a problem with them are the people who have a lead foot and break the law by speeding but can’t handle getting caught. Weather it is a cop sitting on the side of the road or a camera or van there are SPEED LIMIT signs posted….following the f%$&$# law and you wouldn’t be b&%^%$#$^ about the cameras and vans!!! Look at some of the accidents that have happened at intersections where these cameras are posted…If it was you child or family member t -boned at an intersection you sure as shit would be happy to have that photo radar camera right there catching the person who hit your loved one..quit speeding and you should have no problem with having the cameras posted…”

    I know many people think speed cameras and speed limits are somehow some magic wand that will keep people safe, but the fact is, accidents happen with or without them. People who drive fast are not a danger to people. The key word is responsibility. If I am driving very fast when there is a lot of traffic and I hurt someone, then that’s on me. I was irresponsible. However, why punish someone for doing something (speeding on a relatively open freeway) that harms no one?

    The basis of a free society is the freedom to make decisions, and be responsible for those decisions. As long as one does no harm to another, who cares what they do? Anything else is slavery.

    Many studies have shown that the speed of a vehicle is only about 5% of accidents, while “going too fast for conditions” accounts for about 12% of accidents. In fact, in a 2005 study, it was shown that two of the leading causes of accidents was not speeding, but failing to look properly, or an error on the part of the driver.

    Brian Keves said:

    “Traffic cameras exist for one reason only. People in our society do not take responsibility for their own actions and since these are sometimes dangerous actions, other people must be protected from them. As the number of irresponsible people grow, the counter actions have to grow as well.

    A driver’s license is not a right. It is a privilege and when the privilege is abused the government must act to protect it’s citizens. It is an unfortunate truism of the lack of responsibility and we are seeing the results in recent changes to driving laws.

    If you as an individual want to see traffic cameras go away, then take responsibility and stop breaking traffic laws. Stop drinking and speeding and driving. If your response to my request is that I can do that but what about everyone else, you now understand the government’s problem.

    Now of course that we have shown how profitable traffic cameras are, there is also a financial incentive that didn’t exist before we showed it to the government. So I guess all of this is really our fault, collectively. So before you go slinging around the blame, look to yourself and ask if you have always been a safe driver who doesn’t break any traffic ethics.”

    I have much the same feelings towards your comments as I did Dawn’s. But I do object to the comment that the job of the government is to protect it’s citizens. If that were the case, they’d prosecute cops who wrongly beat people; if that were the case, they would ban the use of these dangerous speed and red light cameras, which clearly cause more accidents than they’re supposed to prevent. A more controlling government is not what is needed; unless you like living in China…

  98. Lola says:

    I think the company is selfish. They do not have regard for the safetly of their employees at all. During the first week they moved into their new lower west side building (cheaply built I might add and poorly designed by someone who nothing about what they were doing) the windows were shot out. They sell cameras/photos yet they are too cheap to put safetly monitoring cameras around the building. By-the-way – their employees make absolutely no money and they risk their lives.

  99. Marbro says:

    to duece-take off your blinkers:

    It seems you clearly misunderstood me. The man who is deceased, is the victim, by the company who employed him as well as the shooter. Maybe bullet proof vests are’nt a feasible idea, but come on, some of you people can’t be this politically rigid to just throw the idea back in my face w/o even considering other possibilities of protecting employees in this type of gray situation. Maybe I should go get my masters in criminal justice just so I can voice an opinion. And of course the shooter is in the wrong, no one is against that.
    And, Yeah cameras do help…..Red light cameras at Intersections are a good idea. Thats where most fatalities do occur. The only way to have real change, is to implement policy over-time, whether it be cameras, gun-control, whatever. You find less resistence that way and overtime people change. You dont just ignore the way laws are created (by voting). Then the next day some Gov. Official says: “Ok, no more guns, everybody should drive 35 MPH on freeways. If you dont, you forfeit your house.”
    This is America, people like like the rich, fast life and their freedom. Some of that is ultimately the problem.

  100. Redflex may have more responsibility than we may have thought. Just 6 weeks ago, a man attacked a speed van in Louisiana by ramming his vehicle into it several times: http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/41006657.html

    Yet they did nothing to enhance their operator’s safety.

  101. Bigger Picture says:

    People are missing the bigger picture when it comes to the traffic cameras. Many people say that the cameras are no problem because all you have to do is obey the speed limit. But by passively allowing the traffic cameras to collect funds for the government, you are opening the door for future enforcement cameras of all kinds. Cameras can be placed in your neighborhood to make sure trash barrels are brought in by 6pm. If they are not, you will get a ticket in the mail. Cameras can be placed in business parking lots to enforce proper parking behavior. If you park crooked, you will get a ticket in mail. Please look at the bigger picture for the future of our society and how we want our government to raise funds. Some day, cameras could be placed in our homes to enforce “legal” behavior at all times. And if you say “It will never happen” – think of 20 years ago and all the things people said would never happen that we have seen become reality.

  102. BJ says:

    Well, here we go…

    As I feared, Channel 3 just commented in tonight’s newscast on the video streaming issue and how it would be not usable in a court of law in HB2106. They commented about how it was crucial in catching the shooter.

    You just HAD to know that was going to become a potential sticking point against the bill now. People are actually going to WANT the video streaming – all because of a crime committed OVER THE CAMERAS THAT ARE TAKING THE VIDEO! This is just great…

    At least they gave camerafraud a fair shake in the piece, unlike the other stations that have done all but hatchet jobs on all that have opposition to the cameras.

  103. philosopherking says:

    To all of you who adopt the following reasoning:

    Speed cameras are justified because they decrease the risks of death or injury to the public by acting as a deterrent.

    If you’re reasoning is to be followed, why then, even make cars that go past 75 miles per hour? What is the purpose of manufacturing a car that can speed to speeds that you consider unsafe and dangerous? If what you’re really concerned with, is public safety, then by your logic there is absolutely no need for cars to go above the highest permissible speed limit:

    75 miles per hour.

    How can you argue otherwise?

    I for one speed often, the primary reason being that the speed limits are too slow here in the US. As someone commented earlier, other nations, especially in Europe, have higher speed limits and fewer accidents. To put things into perspective, we should also note that driver training in the US and especially in Arizona is woeful. Americans are badly educated drivers. In France, for example, students MUST take weeks of training classes in order to receive their license. In Arizona, any moron can get a license. The problems we face are not limited to the cameras; the problems are much larger in scope.

    1) Our drivers and badly trained
    2) Our speed limits are too slow
    3) We rely too much on private transportation

    These issues all contribute to what is happening here. However despite all this, I do agree that the cities are installing cameras to raise money… money, money, money, money, money. It’s what’s all about. Raising money. Not public safety, they use that as a disguise.

    We’re so backwards it makes me sick. Raise the speed limit to 75 on all freeways in most, and 85 on interstate highways. Then you can have your cameras.

  104. Yeah, just don’t speed. Tell that to this guy:

  105. Stacey says:

    When do we join the European Union?

  106. Stacey says:

    You trust a private corporation to ensure your safety? hahahaha

    Studies show radar cameras increase accidents:

    http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/04/430.asp

    Six cities have been caught shortening the yellow lights to increase profit:

    http://www.motorists.org/blog/6-cities-that-were-caught-shortening-yellow-light-times-for-profit/

  107. Marbro says:

    You know what, I used to live in Germany -home of the autobahn. From what I remember, they usually had public announcements on TV in regards to driving, tips on obeying signs, emergency vehicles, stop signs at 4-way intersections and so forth. We need something like that here. Living here in so many states, its almost rare to see public announcements on how to drive, particularly in every state. And YES, they also had public announcements on TV for wanted criminals. Its very informative to have public announcements like that because 30 sec commercials can tell you alot of things about whats really going on. I have yet to see an hour show on tv and when cut to commercials, I’ve never seen public announcements on criminals, driving, drowning kids, missing people or anything else.
    There’s other ways of getting through people then just putting profiting cameras on the street.

  108. Joe says:

    I honestly don’t know why the DPS does not more voraciously pursue getting more officers out there on the road. Every cop knows that most criminals are captured and removed from the streets through basic, everyday traffic stops. The guys running cocaine, the people wanted for outstanding warrants, etc. They usually get captured due to a speeding ticket.

    Shifting the burden of speed enforcement onto the machines prevents our officers from making contact with criminals who are more dangerous than speeders. For example, had this nutjob been encountered through a traffic stop by a uniformed officer, there might have been a situation that could have removed him from our roads that much sooner.

    I also feel that it is wrong for governments and private corporations to subject non-sworn human beings to such hazardous duties (such as highway duty). It’s bad enough that cops, firefighters, towtruck drivers, EMTs and highway workers have to get hurt, but why keep adding to the mix of unneccessary workers being in dangerous situations? It’s not right.

    I hope OSHA gets involved here and starts issuing some violations, because clearly they exist.

  109. Marbo, we have that here – it’s just they are only focussed on seatbelts!

    Joe, I think the level of enforcement on roadways by humans is and always was adequate in this state. Would it be nice to have more? Sure. But as it is and was, our roads are adequately safe as far as DPS is concerned. Maybe it’s just me, but I’ve never been afraid to leave the house and drive down any road or freeway in this state. Accident rates have been in steady decline for decades.

    The relatively recent “safety crisis” was invented by the camera industry. They invented a machine and then invented a crisis in order to sell the public and officials on the alleged safety benefits.

  110. geez says:

    Now that some van’s are back out on the road, how soon are you guys gonna go back to harassing them and videoing them to try to make them look silly?

  111. geez says:

    Oh so this murder was a made up plot?!

  112. Law A. Bidingcitizen says:

    joe .. a few things missing from your post besides “thought”
    1. how you are planning on paying for more officers? even in the good times there never seems to be enough of them… maybe you have not heard… we arfe in a recession!!!
    2. had the nut job been speeding… but he was not!!!
    had jfk not had a convertable!!! well you see where i am going!!
    3. they usually get captured by a spped ticket is your opinion.. please leave them at the door
    4.private companies fly miliions of people every year around the world… what would you have us do about that?

    scam is at it again!!! spewing nothing about nothing!! glad you are the only one who thinks there has been adequate LE in this state..cause i think you are the ONLY one!!! i guess when you are doing 75-85 and are so far out in front of people!! you do feel safe!!

    safety crisis!!! I THOUGHT YOU SAID IT WAS ABOUT THE MONEY!!! thats what you have been preaching since i got here!!!

  113. Law A. Bidingcitizen says:

    public announcements on how to drive…now there is an idea…. NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT… people know how to drive… they just choose not to !!! every once inawhile you may catch yourself speeding cause you were not paying attention… but when you are going 75 plus,, it is on purpose… what next we have to have public announcements on how to wipe after pooping? or how to eat? maybe if the germans started cooling their beer they would not be so stupid!!

  114. Joe says:

    PhotoRadarScam:

    I don’t think we need MORE enforcement officers (per-se), but if the ones we DO have are being re-deployed to other “non-speed-related” duties, it means they are missing the opportunity to come in contact with the usual percentage of criminals that come with patrol duty.

    DPS is always begging for more power to enforce, so if they are begging to fill some kind of deficit, then they should deploy human power, that’s all I’m trying to say. Myself, I think the leadership of the DPS is playing politics, not safety.

  115. Marbro says:

    Photoradar-Your right, I’ll retract some of what I said, I do see some of that on TV. But its not enough, I wish they posted wanted criminals on TV, missing people or dealers. So many ways to solve or help important issues.
    ULTIMATELY I just wish, the people who are incharge of the States Budget and Spending, Get It Right. Cause at the end of the day, we all have to wake up the next day in Az. and say to ourselves, geee, another day of looking over my shoulder, while I’m trying to make it to work. So I can provide for my retirement, etc., but also at the same time feel like, the State is trying hard as Heck to Nickel and Dime me, Because some Bafoon or a group of Bafoons arent up to the task of Doing their Gov. Job.
    Hopefully a protest comes this way again in mesa, so I can be there. We just need to get rid of these cameras.

  116. Joe, I agree. I would also suggest that maybe they can look into deploying officers more efficiently. When the guy took a pick axe to the camera, there were like 5 or 6 units on the scene investigating. I find it hard to believe that much personnel is required for a simple property damage call.

  117. Law A. Bidingcitizen says:

    great!!! now scam is a police chief!! telling them how to do their jobs!!! maybe you should stick to doing something about that joke of a web site you “operate”

  118. […] missing an opportunity to take advantage of a tragedy for political gain, Tempe’s police chief muddied the water with this spew: [Chief Tom Ryff] […]

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