Anti-photo enforcement sentiment seems to be popping up faster than the cameras themselves around the Grand Canyon State.
Historically well known for a “wild west” attitude and a strong independent streak, Arizonans from all walks of life are uniting against the politicians who acted as enablers for the current two-edged sword we’re being stabbed with: photo enforcement and a staggering budget deficit.
PhotoRadarScam.com, a new site dedicated to “information about automated law enforcement schemes and scams,” offers information on avoiding tickets and free advice on how to fight received tickets.
“I realized that the movement toward photo enforcement was made without official approval of the public and after lobbying by the equipment manufacturers” said Ryan Denke, of PhotoRadarScam.com. “The politicians have NOT followed the will of their constituents or the provisions of our state laws and state constitution and have instead fallen for the irresistible allure of easy revenue under the guise of public safety.”
CameraFRAUD.com’s own efforts have expanded to Tucson in the past week, with the introduction of tucson.cameraFRAUD.com. We are pleased to announce that editorial control of CameraFRAUD Tucson is being handled by Deputy Bill Conley of the Pinal County Sheriff’s Office.
“Can speed radar read faulty, you bet” writes Conley. “I remember running radar and clocked a tree moving at 20 MPH…and I was stationary.”
Traditional media outlets can’t seem to get enough of the melee. With numerous mentions in the mainstream media within the past week, as well as two local television stations covering our latest demonstration live from the air, it’s hard not to believe that the Cameras are Coming Down.
CameraFRAUD.com - The Cameras are Coming Down 
I have no doubt the cameras are coming down
One word: UNCONSTITUTIONAL
Slown down and keep them up.
It’s not about slowing down dgpjr777, I’m all for enforcing the law. We invite law-enforcement to enforce the laws, not hand the responsibility over to a third party that’s not trained, has no discretion and reflects the presumption of guilty, is not in the best interest of the people. This is abuse.
If a sworn police officer wants to write tickets for speed, running red lights, or anything else, he has that authority.
Follow the money, government has an improper motive here. Laws are written to be enforced NOT as a “Revenue” stream..it’s nothing more that a TAX.
You need to educate yourself.
– Bill Conley
Bill I have educated myself and I see it working. Just having cameras up in different places has had people driving the speed limits, including myself. The cameras are nothing different than the radar gun the Police Officers hold in their hands. yes, Bill I am also a retired Police Officer so I know what has gone on out on the streets and believe me I have a hell of alot more experience than you have.
Besides everyone keeps statin it’s just a revenue issue. Why not take the money from people breaking the law instead of raising taxes and so on. I will continue to support these cameras and I will continue to have everyone I know support them also.
Ron by the way they are not unconstitutional. They have been approved throught the Mesa courts and that is why Mesa signed a 5 year contract recently with ATS.
I have to wonder why it is not possible to set fines for speeding at a level such that the cost of increased enforcement and revenue from the fines is a break-even situation. If public safety truly were the concern, it would seem that this would be the ideal solution at no additional cost to tax payers.
What the Mesa court thinks is meaningless for constitutional matters. Such matters need to be decided by the Supreme Court. They are unconstitutional on many levels, the details of which are at http://PhotoRadarScam.com/summary.html and include equal protection, due process, right to speed indictment, and lack of government oversight of the equipment used to collect evidence.
dgpjr,,,,I too am a retired officer…I did not drive a cruiser or work the streets or jockey a desk but I did legal surveys for the IRS Dept of a state DOT. In my experience this is all about revenue, and if you keep the natives politically and diplomatically happy it is a great way to generate income…
What the city of Mesa finds to be consitutional is irrelevant.. This is really simple..
How does the public know if this is about safety or revenue?
Follow the money.
Who profits and who is safer because of the system?
National studies prove the overall safety is not reduced by cameras, although the type of crashes shift from angle on, to rear end.
The overall net result in this shift is an increase of property damage and injuries.
But when you take revenue into account the underlying purpose becomes clear, increased money into the coffers of those who install them. That’s the State of Arizona and the individual municipalities.
The camera company’s sole purpose is to profit. Look at Redflex’s home page and review the P&L statements. Its all about investment opportunity and making money.
When a city or state contracts with a for profit company to enforce the law, you can come to only one conclusion. Ka-Ching…….
When Janet Nappylotaxo stated the same, it was confirmed.
That is why there is such a backlash to the cameras and should be.
Then you have to take the court system into account. The Judge is the jury and executioner. You lose your constitutional rights to a fair trial. You are guilty until proven innocent. Its rigged.
So great, we are all driving slower, but that doesn’t mean we are safer, we are just avoiding fines.
The freeway system was designed for higher speeds. We are mostly driving under what is safe and prudent, only to avoid the man.
Its a scam.
Interesting.. a pal of mine just mentioned that a new state agency, ‘the fraud enforcement bureau’ will be making an appeareance at our next event..
Nice..
“I will continue to support these cameras and I will continue to have everyone I know support them also.”
Wow, I am impressed that you have such sway over your relatives, friends and neighbors!
I find it really funny that DJPJGR actually thinks that because the illustrious city of Mesa’s court found them to be okay, that it somehow trumps the 14th amendment of the federal constitution, and overrides our state and federal right to privacy..
Certain people should understand that government has encroached enough on our rights, and sadly the majority of the population (sheeple) will go for anything.. This state was built on ruggedly independent values, and its time to take a stand..
So, wait…did I just hear that right?
“Why not take the money from those breaking the law instead of raising taxes and so on?”
Why not? I’ll tell you why not! The budgetary shortfall, that affects every last resident of the state, ought to be all of our responsibilities- we all receive the benefit of the state’s services. But if the cameras are installed, that burden only falls to those who are fined by it. So, in effect, you are saying that it is OK to take this communal burden, which ought to be shared by all, and have your portion shouldered by others. After all, you evidently don’t speed, therefore you don’t pay.
Typical. I want the benefit, but I don’t want to pay for it.
Thank you for explaining your position. I have been trying to understand it the last few days.
I spent some time on Photoradarscam.com. There is some good advice but it needs lots of work.
I fought and beat my tickets using some of the information on http://www.highwayrobber.net
The Highway Robbery website that is a work in progress and has been up for quite a while. There is an amazing amount of information to go through when you get one of these bogus tickets. It is based on California laws but most of those are in play here too.
I would advise anyone who gets a photo ticket to review as much information as possible before you fight your ticket. Every driver has a different set of circumstances and they need as much background as possible to go to court educated and confident.
If you can afford an attorney, make sure they are up to date and are going to fight for you to dismiss the ticket instead of just advising you to pay the fine. Most of the lawyers I talked to were more interested in billing me than really putting any effort into a traffic ticket. Thats why I decided to educate myself and take on the court. It paid off.
The bottom line is if you do get a ticket, always fight it in court. Don’t play their game by being intimidated and just coughing up the fine.
correction
the web address is: http://www.highwayrobbery.net/
Oh well not everyone likes to obey the law but like I said before something has to slow down the speed of drivers. Bill stated leave it to the Officers to run the radar. What happens when you see Officers on the side of the road? Nothing different than the cameras, everyone hits the brakes and slows down. The only exception is Stationary cameras or Vans they have signs out warning you ahead of time. So what is the big deal, that alone should tell you the people getting caught just are not paying attention while driving. Some just don’t like change but if this whole camera idea saves just one life then it is worth it to me. During my career I have pulled more than enough bodies from accidents involving idiots driving on these roadways that just don’t care and something needs to be done. That is why I support these cameras and to me it is worth it.
Oh by the way Helldigger it sounds like you are one of the ones we need the cameras for, fighting all your tickets. Sounds like you have a probelm with obeying the law.
dgpjr,
“He that sacrifices liberty for safety deserves neither.”
do those words mean little or nothing to you?
HellDigger, thank you for the feedback. I have updated the site to link to Highwayrobbery.net as it has much more information.
dgpr, if someone was able to fight their ticket and win, then it is clear that they were not guilty or the evidence would have proven otherwise in the court of law. After seeing your other comments on here, it is no suprise that you would prefer to intimidate the innocent into not fighting their tickets than to see true justice prevail.
Perhaps Russia or China would be a better place for you to live. I think their justice systems would be more to your liking.
Check this out, http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/12/21/1751210 Seems that some kids are “gaming the system”
dgpjr777 isn’t a retired officer… not an AMERICAN one anyway.
We need to do what Illinois is doing – Go cameras – Glyph you are a Moron, I can tell lol
Illinois Speed Cameras to Take License on 2nd Offense
Illinois will begin using photo radar in freeway work zones in July. Second offense tickets are $1000 with license suspension.
Beginning in July the State of Illinois will use speed cameras in areas designated as “work zones” on major freeways. Anyone caught by the devices will be mailed a $375 ticket for the first offense, but a second ticket will cost $1000 and comes with a 90-day license suspension. Drivers will also face higher insurance premiums as the first offense remains on the record for 4-5 years, but a second offense remains for a minimum of 7 years. This represents the harshest penalty structure yet for a city using photo enforcement.
The state will begin with two camera vans issuing tickets in zones with speed limits lowered to 45 MPH. Photographs of both the driver’s face and license plate are taken. Officials plan to keep at least one van in the Chicago area on the Dan Ryan and Kingery Expressways while other vans issue tickets in the rest of the state. Illinois Tollway Executive Director Jack Hartman promised more work zones: “Since the Tollway just launched our $5.3 billion Congestion Relief Plan, drivers will see more work zones on the Tollway than they have in the past.”
@dgpjr777
I’m at 14203 N 19th Ave, #1017, Phx 85023
Come on over, tell me I’m a moron to my face.
@dgpjr777 I’m going out to get some dinner, but will be back in about 90 minutes. I don’t want you to think I missed you on purpose (in case you actually grow a pair and show up).
Cheers!
Glyph I have a pair but you are not my type. Grow up !
Gentlemen, this has the potential to not end well and regardless of our views on the subject at hand, please remember to keep a cool head about yourselves. Might I suggest a day or two delay for this proposed meeting?
DPGR- Looks like you declined. I disagree with you on a number of subjects, as you well know, but this one I am right there with you on.
u guys are retarded
Everyone does have there opinion and to each their own. I guess we just wait and see what people want. My only concern is that if something helps save a life then leave it. If it does not help then so be it. Anyways leaving for the East Coast for holidays and may everyone Pro or Against have a wonderful and safe holiday season.
Aw, what a message of peace on this holiday season!
Y’know, not just a camera can save lives dgpjr777… shutting your mouth can save a life as well!
If you really were a cop, I’d be on the news right now. I already knew what you were made of, and now everyone else knows it too.
Glyph– can’t you see that he is baiting you simply because he cannot defend his position? It’s the typical ploy– someone catches me on something and I don’t know how to get out of it…so let’s make it be about something else.
Previously, we have outmaneuvered him in his “it’s for the safety” campaign, here, he specifically admitted that he knows it’s a revenue generator, and that he is for it specifically because this means he doesn’t have to pay his share of taxes.
Oops. He’s been outfoxed and he knows it. It’s now time to change the subject! DPGR has done it numerous times in the last few days, every time he’s cornered on an actual issue. Once he runs out of places to run, he changes the subject and/or stops frequenting that post. This time he’s baiting you. That’s all the more it is.
And now he also mysteriously has this trip to the East Coast to go to, so he’ll lie low for a while and pop his myopic head out of his molehill in a couple of days and start posing his stupid comments all over again.
@No One
Thank you, I know you’re right about dgpjr777. I imagine real cops would be pissed off to hear him trying to pass himself as one. And to be honest, the whole exchange reminded of the old BBS flame wars (yes, I’m old). But now, like then, my home address and an open invitation seemed to shut people right up.
Normally I can ignore trolls and their posts, like water off a duck’s back. But I have too much invested, feel too strongly about this issue to just ‘let it go.’ I don’t see dgpjr777 at the sign waves, or sneaking up on cops to get their pictures as they spy on us. So… I’m not gonna take his shit.
“if it saves a life then leave it.”
You know what would save lives? Lowering all speed limits to 10mph. It would save THOUSANDS of lives!
Saving lives can’t always be a reason to keep or have something. The accident rate will never be zero. We have to decide what an acceptable accident rate is and figure out how to get there.
I thought the roads were and are plenty safe. But if we’re going to have a camera program, someone needs to justify to me why the accident rates are unreasonably high and what an acceptable accident rate would be and someone would have to show that this is the proper way to get there. Instead, the cameras are shoved down our throats and no one seems to care about any results except how many dollars come rolling in.
From the latest NHTSA report, it would appear that the best course of action is public education about distracted driving. Cameras are of no help to the TRUE cause of most accidents.
Ammendment 14:
“(snip)…..No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”
If I can’t question the camera or compell the camera operators to testify in court, how can I have due process of law? By denying me the right to question my accuser, you deny me due process and equal protection.
dgpjr777 you seem so concerned with people following the law, yet you show no concern whatsoever with the laws that were violated by our executive branch to illegally tax us, take away our right to face our accusers in court, or even the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. I simply cannot imagine why you are so ready to become a non-thinking robot sheep. Are you ‘on the take’ with our govt? For that matter, you cite safety and saving lives. Over 40,000 americans die each year on our roads and highways and yet I bet you do NOTHING to save lives by educating drivers. If we are concerned with safety for the sake of safety alone, we will lose our rights as they become trumped by our concerns for safety. Just like what is happening to you. If you want to be safe, never go outside again because you might get in an accident or a bird might poop on you. Me? I prefer my rights, thank you very much.
Oh yes, I forgot to add that these cameras are definitely for revenue. Here again, our elected government shows their folly. If we have a deficit here, what sense does it make to give so much of our money to an AUSTRALIAN company???
dgpjr777 Says: “We need to do what Illinois is doing – Go cameras… $1000 fines, blah blah blah. ”
Excellent example, dgpjr. We need to copy a state that has an executive leader who’s being charged in a historical fraud case, as well as a state that was just referred to by federal officials as “beyond corrupt at all levels.”
I see the beauty in your posts now, dg: They’re all SATIRE! You’re the Steve Colbert of Camera fraud! In fact, I’m sure you have this site on both your “threat down” and “Whos destroying america now” lists.
dgpjr…you sound like someone with a very small peter.
This says/shows it all.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8470285655709172420
I posted this in the pictures demonstration area, but can’t let it not be seen by all.
To Marcy and Mr. Happy
Not sure if anyone here happens to catch the blog posts on AZcentral every time they post an article on the cameras, but there are two people in particular worth commenting on. I am now convinced that both of these people are either RedFlex employees or that they benefit financially in some way from the cameras (and not in the utopian I am a safe person now with slower drivers and thus I benefit from lower insurance etc… kind of way).
Marcy will side with dgpjr all day long. She will write that the only thing one need do is to just slow down. Regardless of how many times I will tell her that that statement is entirely irrelevant, she and Mr. Happy will go on and on about how the cameras work, how they slow down drivers and how there should be more of them. Not at one point will the debate me on the morality, ethics, philosophy or economics of photo cameras.
I for one very much support this site as well as other sites bringing attention to this. KEEP IT UP!
All the State of Arizona has done is to create more opportunities for rear end collisions, strip the people of Constitutionally protected individual rights, figure out a way to extract more money from the public, alleviate law enforcement from all responsibility and accountability for patrolling the highways, create congestion, decrease gas mileage, increase vehicle emissions and in the end create a more dangerous driving situation than existed previously.
I predict an eventual fatality caused directly by a photo camera. I believe the probability is high that this will spur a class action law suit where the state will be found negligent and in the end cost tax payers even more money by paying out the settlement, paying Redflex whatever amount (never disclosed by the way) they still owe and removing and dismantling the cameras.
Something else worth noting (and which has been easily brushed off my Marcy who has compared it to looting after Hurricane Katrina) is what I have termed the “natural” rate of the flow of traffic. On any given road, there is a typical speed at which most cars travel. Observe this speed and you will see that it is ALWAYS (save congestion or construction) faster than the posted speed limit. This implies that most drivers are speeding most of the time. Rather than the State conducting speed studies to determine what the appropriate speed for the road is (such as is the case now on the 51) they have set the speed significantly lower than the what the vast majority of cars typically drive. Not only does this create congestion, it creates a significantly hazardous driving situation.
Marcy brushes this off stating that she never speeds (which is a lie) and she compares it to a mob mentality. She has said, just because everyone does something doesn’t make it right. She completely misses the point.
I am in no way attempting to justify speeding. In fact, I have said over and over that I tend to drive the same speed as most other cars, hence the “natural” rate of the speed of the flow of traffic.
I am very concerned about the precedent photo cameras set. I am very concerned about the fact that a foreign company has been granted the right to enforce domestic law, not to mention the fact that those employees now granted the right to enforce law are by no means trained law enforcement officers. I am very concerned about the fact that one no longer has the right to challenge their accuser face to face in a court of law. I am very concerned that the state has suddenly fallen into a windfall of 6.6 million dollars and that they have not once disclosed where that money is going nor how much is being paid to RedFlex.
RedFlex, the politicians and those who are so comfortable and trusting of their government officials will not be happy until everyone drives 10 mph under the speed limit, until every car is monitored the moment the engine is turned on or until you and I are watched 24 hours a day 365 days a year and monitored for everything you do all the time everywhere.
This is a scary time indeed. People like Marcy and Mr. Happy seem to represent a segment of the population that supports government intervention and government control and are unwilling (or unable) to question what they see around them.
“The Emperor has no clothes!”
Yea, what he said..
I’m not convinced marcy is with Redflex, but she is a azcentral board troll. I’m not even convinced that she believes what she types.
It is interesting how the pro-camera people always seem to have statistics and numbers that they pull out of their ass, while all fraudsters have sources and link to back up their comments.
Obviously, approved by Dumbocrat Gov. Janet Napolitano – the party of Big Brother Government.
Since VP-elect Joe Biden believes it’s “patriotic” to pay taxes, and ScamCams were set up for the Government to get more revenue, hey, let’s all be patriotic and speed!
Isn’t it funny that VP-elect Joe Biden didn’t say that being responsible stewards of taxpayers’ money is patriotic?
Because if our government truly cared about us, they wouldn’t have wasted money irresponsibly then come after us for more. This sets a dangerous precedence. Allowing them to become accustomed to bilking us for their ineptness only fuels their further ineptness.