New Times: Trash Your Tickets


trashThe Phoenix New Times has a new article up regarding the extortion letters generated by the scam cams:

People ask us all the time: What can I do about that nasty photo radar ticket I got in the mail?

The answer: Nothing.

Literally. Chuck it in the trash.

See the rest over at their site.

38 Responses to New Times: Trash Your Tickets

  1. Helldigger says:

    Good article.

    Salient points.

    Register your car in your spouse’s name. Arizona law states the tickets must be gender specific.

    Register your car to your Family Trust. Arizona up until now will not serve Family Trusts.

    Register your car to your corporation.. Tough to do if you don’t have one, but set up an LLC and register that for under 150.00. Arizona up until now will not serve Corporations.

    Always ignore the ticket that comes in the mail. If you sign the waiver to be served in person, you are writing away your rights. A server must be hired to find you and serve you in person.

    If you are served, you must appear in court or plead guilty. If you plead guilty, which is what the State wants you to do, you can pay the fine, go to defensive driving school and don’t get any points on your license. This is not what you should do. Go to court even if this is your first ticket. There are valid legal defenses that increase your probabilities of winning in court. The more people that go to court, the more it costs the state to administer the program. If everyone goes to court, it overwhelms the court system in short order. You have the right to a speedy trial. If 44000 people go to court from the last 2 months of tickets, the program would be insolvent right out of the shoot.

    Fighting your ticket is an ethical and needed action to provide the state with the fact that we can eat up their profit if they choose to continue this farce. The Scam put on the other foot, will force the program to be dropped.

    Never sign your right away to be served in person. Always fight your ticket.

    The best way to fight this program, is to drive at least 10 miles under the posted speed on the freeway, slowing or snarling traffic and denying any revenue to the perpetrators of this fraudulent SCAM>

    • don says:

      “Always ignore the ticket that comes in the mail. If you sign the waiver to be served in person, you are writing away your rights. A server must be hired to find you and serve you in person.” ….I was not home, but my son, a minor, was given my ticket by the server. Does this constitute me being properly served?

  2. azmojo says:

    One caveat to putting your vehicle in a company name… you have to have auto insurance in the company name. Insurance for a company may take away some discounts that you currnetly get – enough to pay for a couple of photo tickets so it may not be worth it.

  3. Dave Mulinberg says:

    Or you can simply drive within the posted speed limit and not worry at all about the cameras.

  4. azmojo says:

    Dave, there is no immunity if the camera is malfunctioning, which happens quite often and is well-documented.

  5. Dave Mulinberg says:

    All, while its true that there have been malfunctions, the citations have been dismissed – this too is well documented. You do have recourse in such situations, which are indeed rare. As I said – its not a problem if you stick to the posted speed limit. You guys are simply trying to grossly exaggerate the situation.

  6. azmojo says:

    How do you know the malfunctions are rare? How honest do you think Redflex/ATS are? Do you really trust a profit-driven corporation to honstly report and admit ALL machine malfunctions? If you trust them, then you are more naive than I.

    To my knowledge, there is no government oversight of the maintenance and operation of these devices.

  7. jgunn says:

    Or better yet, buy a GPS detector and a top of the line radar detector and never have to worry about getting a ticket in the mail. My commute to work goes as such:

    Drive a good safe 85 percentile speed.
    When the GPS detector says “fixed camera ahead, speed limit XX. Attention, overspeed” Slow down to posted limit (extra points for breaking to limit right before wires in the road come up)
    As soon as wires in road pass, gas pedal to floor to regain speed (gas will be 99 cents soon, no worries).
    Haul ass to the next camera.
    Rinse repeat until next camera.
    If radar detector goes off on K band, brake pedal to floor to scrub off speed. (extra points if car behind you loses control and goes into guardrail trying to avoid you)

  8. Dave Mulinberg says:

    How do you know that the malfunctions are common? I don’t need to trust anybody on this issue. If a camera malfunctions it will be known right away – they don’t selectively target CameraVandals.com members. If a camera malfunctions then all citations that are issued based on evidence from the camera are dismissed. You guys should really do some homework.

  9. George says:

    Who is this Dave Mulingerg idiot? A Redflex employee? Or an relative of that lying DPS Pub Info Officer that shows up on the media and strongly recommends us to “Pay up?”

    It’s all about the money.

  10. Ross from Redflex says:

    This is just an open question to all my fellow supporters of Redflex? Why do you all sound so bitter and use so many profanities and name calling? Seriously blokes, we are getting our way here. This website is a joke and I just come here to have a good time.

    I won’t be seeing much of it until tomorrow though. I’m headed from my place in Tempe off to the Cardinals game in Glendale. And to all you camerafraudsters, I’ll be going 66 MPH the whole time. That’s about $3,000 worth of tickets I get to ignore. Seriously, why don’t you all just come work as mobile van drivers or process servers if you’re so tired of these tickets?

    Anyway, 66 MPH is a VERY dangerous speed, especially on an Interstate Highway. I can handle it though because I see dangerous driving all the time and I’m just a better driver than all of you. I think I’ll have me a few beers at the game and toast to Redflex and the Redbirds!!

  11. Scott says:

    Ross…hahahaha…you sweet thang you!

  12. George says:

    They had an attorney on Ch10 This morning. She said to throw them in the trash. They had two different clips of the DPS Public Information Officer (PIO). In neither clip did he say that you had to respond to the notices received in the mail.

    He said, “Well, they have the name of a law enforcement agency on the top, I sure wouldn’t ignore something like that.” Note that he did not say that it was illegal to ignore them. Because it is not illegal! That is the job of a PIO to spin the facts as close as possible to a lie without actually lying.

    I’ll bet 90% of those who saw him on TV though he said it was illegal to ignore them. He said nothing of the sort, because it is not illegal.

  13. Nuttzz says:

    This is both informative and extremely funny (hence jgunn and Ross). Until I get a ticket in the mail for doing 5 over the speed limit (can’t understand why people have to drive 10-15miles above the speed limit) which I probably never will, I’ll just laughing here. Thanks. It made my night at work go a little faster.

  14. Bill says:

    I have a few arguments concerning the cameras. First and formost they have nothing to do with public saftey and everything to do with filling the state coffers. Now down to the logic. The cameras eliminate the “reasonable and prudent” law that has been around as long as I’ve lived in Arizona, 36 years now. This allowed a law inforcement officer to discern whether you actions, say 68 mph at 3 a.m. in a 7 series BMW was reasonable and prudent in a 55 mph zone. In most cases the officer wouldn’t even bother pulling you over. Before the cameras I’ve been on the I-17 many times between down town and north Phoenix and the traffic as well as DPS are all doing 65-70mph in the 55 zone. Sure the speed was over the limit but well within the sane bracket. Everyone was including the cops were just going with the flow. Camera flow turns us all into paranoid robots. The next thing. In many cases the speed limits on our freeways have been the same for 30 or 40 years. Now that cars have air bags, better suspension systems, anti lock brakes and a host of other inovations we are still driving the same speeds. I remember the posted limit on the 10 from Phoenix to Tuscon was 75 MPH in 1972 as it is now. How many cars had anti lock brakes, air bags and other equipment back then? None. The speed limit remains the same. By the way, the 17 was 55 back then too. I guess in closing it kind of sucks that our half man half women governor that put the cameras in place is leaving for Washington. If only she ( it ) had been called six months ago. No other governor would have done this, I believe. Hey, maybe she ( it?) will have them put cameras all over the nation. Im sure she never drives so she has no idea what it is like to live with them. Big Brother is watching. Good luck to all.

  15. Ross from Redflex says:

    Bill, I agree with nothing you say except about Janet Napolitano. Seeing her around the office always gave me the willies. I don’t think she was a sheila at all, but a bloke in sheila’s clothing. Either way she sure created a lot of jobs for process servers and camera install technicians during her terms as governor.

  16. Bill says:

    Ross. Was your boss looking over your shoulder when you replied. My comments make perfect sense and furthermore are based on my own personal experience. I can’t believe that you find my comments wihout merit. You must be either new in the state ( or country?) Do you know that the freeways in most areas are built with 80 mph speeds in mind? I suspect that you are misinformed or not informed at all. Or perhaps you lack driving skills and drive a low performance car or junker.

  17. David says:

    A thought: camera’s that are set to issue citations ONLY IF the vehicle is traveling over a certain speed above that posted. Scottsdale for example allows an 11 mph “overage”. Scottsdale states on their web site that the reason for this is because of Arizona’s “reasonable and prudent” speed law.

    So, if a car is traveling 61 mph ina posted 50 zone, in heavy traffic, at night, with a burned out head light, rainy dlippery conditions, the driver is within the “reasonable and prudent” overage and will not be ticketed.

    If a different car on a sunny afternoon, clear visibility, light traffic, goes 62 mph in the SAME SONE, the diver is accused of traveling at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent. DSous this sound fair? Or does it sound like arbittrary and capricious enforcement of the law?

  18. Tuan Tu says:

    Dear NewTimes, I just wonder is it Illegal for a RedFlex’s Employee to impersonated a Law-Enforcement when he driving a Sherrif’s Marked Photo-Enforce SUV ?

  19. Editweapon says:

    I was going 67 mph in what had been temporarily changed to a 55 mph zone on Arizona 101 Highway. For anyone who wants to know what it looks like to see the camera, here you go.

    Btw, the camera tickets in AZ are now considered to be like a parking ticket, and therefore the ticket goes with the car. This means that you don’t have to actually be served by a processor server for the ticket to “count”. Which is why it says on the ticket, “No court appearance is required and poin ts will not be assessed to your driving record. This Notice of Violation is not subject to dismissal due to defensive driving school attendance.”

    Instead, the ticket now travels along with the car, which means that if you have too many “parking tickets”, the car can be impounded.

    This info came from a friend of mine in January of 2008. He’s a civil prosecutor for the city of Scottsdale, Arizona. I don’t know who to believe.

  20. Joe says:

    EditWeapon,

    AZ state law still states that you must be properly served. Photo cameras are not capable of doing this, nor is a letter in the mail. License points do not matter. That wording on your letter was deliberately crafted to deceive and confuse you. The reason no court appearance is “required” is because they’re hoping you’ll just pay it. Pay it and no court date is needed. Fail to act on it, and that is when they send the process servers out. To “properly” serve you. That’s when a real “citation” exists, and with that citation being properly served, you still have the “option” to pay it and plead guilty. You also have the option to appear in court (as the citation itself will state).

    Your “civil prosecutor” friend is obviously not your friend. He did you a disloyalty by not properly informing you that you had every right to throw that letter in the garbage. I hope you did not pay the bill (yet).

    Force the system to literally absorb the flood of newly accused scofflaws. They wanted to severely criminalize simple speeding, so let’s give them what they asked for: Jammed courtrooms.

  21. Frank says:

    Another Californian….Got TWO!

    I received TWO Notices, for the same speeding Violation Code, the same day, (within 2 minutes/within 2 miles of each other) in Phoenix, AZ as I was leaving town. This seems patently UNFAIR! They ask for $181.50 EACH!

    I had gone there for a long weekend, spent money in their hotels and restaurants, and ran their Marathon. What a lousy way to treat visitors!

    My options: 1. Ignore them? or 2. Telephone them and ask them to consider dismissing one and allow me to pay the other, as a compromise. (My fear is that by making contact with them I would simultaneously be acknowledging receipt of the Notices.)

    My other main concern with ignoring them, is that I’m told Arizona would not dismiss them, but would file the complaints in court and have them forwarded to California under a reciprocity agreement, and then I’d wind up paying even more, and have points assessed against me as well. (The Notices say no points will be assessed if I just pay.)

    Anyone know if the reciprocity thing is true?

  22. Law A. Bidingcitizen says:

    i know this is true… you came here… and ignored the laws that govern speeding… and you appear to have done it without remorse… did they not teach you to read in the california schools…. did you not see the signs that read… photo enforcment zone? they give you ample warning!!! not only did you pass 2 signs… heck you passed 4 of them….you see it would be nice to have you return here… but if you are going to just endanger the lives of our residents with your need to go faster than the speed limits allow… well then… stay away!!!

    take some responsibility for your action!!! no negotiations.. pay the fines or they will do as you have guessed…. you will pay more in the end!!!! if you got 2 tickets then you blew past 2 cameras… good thing that you did not get pulled over… we dont allow driving under the influence either.. sounds like you were puffing a little of the magic grass!!!!

  23. Steve says:

    Double fraud! Camera on 101 Eastboud 35th Ave. Set for 55 in 65. Construction zone speed limit changes to 55 “after” the camera. How many sheepishly pay for actually going 6 or 7 mph over the posted 65 mph speed limit. A license to steal! Shame!!!

  24. Jessica says:

    Steve
    North 101 eastbound does, as you state, have a camera at 35th ave which is set for 55 and the speed limit that is posted is 65. It is not until AFTER the cameras that the construction speed limit is posted at 55. Many tickets have been sent out for this and it is ridiculous that they are not all being dismissed particularly if they are still within the 10 over exception (i.e 66, 67, 68…). Whose responsibile for correcting this when even the issuers are aware of it?

  25. Christopher says:

    Has anyone ever lived in Europe. You can drive as fast as you want on the freeway. I lived there for 5 years. There are no more issues with public safety over there than there are here. The people drive much more courteously and move over for faster traffic and they often times have worse weather related driving than sunny AZ. The speed cameras in Europe are reserved for highly populated areas and areas of lots of pedestrian traffic where speed limits make sense and are necessary and not on the freeway.

  26. kyle says:

    hey folks,

    I’m living in Las Cruces, NM and the city has just put up about 4 or 5 cameras courtesy of our friends at Redflex Traffic Systems. What do I need to do to bring these down?

  27. Cassandra says:

    I am in Utah and last time I got a Camera ticket in AZ it was dismissed after 120 or 180 days (I cant remember) is this still true?

  28. Tom G. says:

    Paint ball is just as much fun in an urban setting as rural.

  29. Walter says:

    Super Soaker and Black Cherry Kool-Aid mixed very thick.

  30. Dr.F says:

    That’s more like it; let’s talk about sabotage, about revenge, about justice, about being vigilantes, about payback. That’s why I came to this site, because these cameras are popping up for other reasons aside from $$$ (which is obvious). Surveillance and control are 2 equally insidious reasons. Don’t forget, all faces within all vehicles are filmed at every pass – these are not still cameras we are dealing with; they are 24/7 video cameras filming us. The bright flash is largely theater. The tech these perps have go well beyond the need for very conventional flash lighting for face / plate recognition. Don’t make me laugh. Facial recognition software is more advanced than you think. The little dorks looking at your photos and mailing them out to you have no idea of the real purpose of the equipment and the other imagery that it is possible to obtain. This really is about Big Brother first, control and fear tactics second, then taxation / revenue generation third. In parts of Europe (England in particular), this agenda is far more advanced and near the cities has become a near total surveillance society. Criminality on a governmental level always has to be sold to the sheeple as “safety” and “convenience”. But, that’s no different than the FACT that your very own television has been able since the 1980s (at the very latest) to record imagery and audio of you and your family sitting in front of it, but what % of Americans know this? 0.001% who are called “tinfoil hat wearers”?! George Orwell really was right on the money, and the reason that he named his book “1984”, was because he was referencing what was technically feasible in 1948, the year he wrote the book. Sad, but true.

    So, let’s here of some creative tactics to subvert Big Brother…

    • Malfeasant says:

      You had me going until the bit about TVs being able to record imagery and audio- I’ve taken apart enough TVs in my time to call shenanigans on that one, your tinfoil hat fits you well.

  31. robert sacks says:

    these photo idiot cameras are noting more than a money maker for this brain dead state

  32. ed says:

    Great article, agree all the way, one technical error is that you don’t plead guilty on most traffic tickets, you plead responsible or not responsible. See, Arizona has relieved us of those pesky Constitutional rights by declaring most traffic tickets as civil that way there is no discovery (interrogatories, depositions, etc) and the standard of proof is much diminished to that of a preponderance rather than beyond a reasonable doubt. Of course if you appeal your ticket to the Court of Appeals where it will be summarily ignored and dismissed, it transfers as a criminal event.

    Just your Nazizona court system helping you out (of your rights and your money).

    Anyway, this article should read that you plead not responsible rather than not guilty. But yes, do fight these if for no other reason than to clog the system.

  33. oh boy says:

    I just think all you bigmouths yapping about how great Redflex and the cameras are should put your money where your mouth is. Maybe, refinance your home and use the money to BUY Redflex stock. From the looks of it they need all the help they can get.

  34. oh boy says:

    To Ross from Redflex: You need to make better use of your time (like updating your resume and trying to figure out how to account for the time you spent there.)(surely you would not be stupid enough to admit you worked for Redflex on a job application). July will be here before you know it, You better get busy!

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